Bob Barr for President 2008 - The Thread

Oh boy here we go with KenH's candidate of the month.:laugh:

 

I hope he beats obama

AJ

 

All the way through what? He is still running apparently.

You switched to Obama declaring that you would vote for him. Now you have changed again. Quite frankly, you are more believable when you don't speak.

 

The way things look around here Barr will be stealing votes from Obama.

 

It's too bad the Libertarian ticket isn't reversed. Then we could have the Root Barr ticket! Nothin' beats a frosty mug of Root Barr.

 

Hello Ken:

I admit up front that I have a very superficial sense of what "libertarianism" is all about. Nevertheless, I do think it is a tricky position to reconcile with the gospel. Here is something I found on the web describing libertariansim:

"The core idea is simply stated, but profound and far-reaching in its implications. Libertarians believe that each person owns his own life and property, and has the right to make his own choices as to how he lives his life - as long as he simply respects the same right of others to do the same.

Another way of saying this is that libertarians believe you should be free to do as you choose with your own life and property, as long as you don't harm the person and property of others."

Now here is the problem as I see it: The appeal of libertarianism is, of course, the freedom it promises. However, my suspicion is that libertarianism does not fully address the inter-connectedness of all things - how my decision, say, to drive an SUV affects the other people in the world (e.g. increasing pollution). My intuition is that if one really takes the "as long as you do not harm the person and property of others" bit seriously, your "freedom" begin to shrink to the point where the "libertarian" position becomes indisitinguishable from other positions.

I am interested in any arguments you can mount as to how liberterianism can be reconciled with the demands of kingdom living that are placed on us in the Scriptures.

 

Libertarians are basically for keeping government at the most local possible level. If you want to read a good book on the subject, I would suggest "Why I am a Libertarian" by Chas. Murray.

You may want to elaborate on this statement a little. What "kingdom" are you talking about?

 

I am talking about the "Kingdom of God" - the kingdom that Jesus taught so much about and which was initiated by him over 2000 years ago.

I will try to illustrate in the context of a specific issue - universal health care.

I believe that the scriptural position on this is that we should have it, even though the specific issue is obviously not specifically addressed in the Bible. I would cite the parable of the lost sheep as support for the concept. Despite people's attempt to shrink that parable into a "salvation of souls" issue, I think it has wider implications - including that society should be structured to ensure all are guaranteed a certain level of care.

Now, there is a price to pay for this. Let's say that Fred gets cancer. Because Fred has been living in a society where he has been taxed to support universal health care, he has less money than he otherwise would have. So Fred cannot afford to "go outside the system" and pay for special high-tech treatment not available under universal health care.

So, in a sense, Fred's "freedom" to act in the interests of his own health has been limited or constrained by what I think is a kingdom value - using our collective resources to ensure that everyone gets a minimum level of care.

Would a libertarian oppose universal health care? I suspect that they would (but let them speak for themselves).

If we are going to follow Jesus fully, I think this means giving up some of our "freedoms".

 

Are you Roman Catholic? Well, this is a debate for another thread. Lets get back on topic.

It was Barr who in 1996 wrote the Defense of Marriage Act, which said states didn't have to recognize gay marriages performed in other states; it was Barr who protested when he learned the military allowed soldiers to practice Wicca. A former federal prosecutor, a firm social conservative, and a strong supporter of the War on Drugs.
Does he sound like a Libertarian to you?

 

I am not Roman Catholic. As to the matter of this being on topic, I think it is. If the thread is about Barr, the values of libertarianism are obviously relevant. And, assuming that we are all serious Christians here, what the Scriptures have to say is indeed relevant. I am not intending to turn this into a debate about universal health care. I used it is an example in response to your question.

Not in these respects, no.

I am still interested in how people integrate a libertarian philosophy with a Christian worldview.

Now if Barr is not really a libertarian, and is not generally promoting the values of libertarianism, then indeed what I am talking about is for another thread.

So. Is Barr a liberterian (generally) or not?

 

I watched quite a bit of the LP debate Sat night. Barr had some good moments and good points. He seemed a bit inconsistent at times, though, and came across occasionally bitter that he was left out of the power structure of the GOP. Root came across very passionate and principled, more so than Barr. I am following this candidacy very closely. I didn't care for Barr in the house, so something just nags me about him now. But like I said, I'm very interested. No question he's more of a federalist and originalist than Obama. Has some advantages to McCain as well. But I'm not pouring my Kool Aid yet. :laugh: