Born Again-Regeneration-Living Water-Holy Spirit

I just don't see this in the scriptures highlighted in the OP. Since your post does not point specifically to any scriptures I cannot comment beyond saying I disagree.

God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

I have supported my conclusions in the OP with scripture.

Brother, the Holy Spirit is everlasting life and if He indwells us then we have everlasting life.

I point directly to John 7 for the definition of "living water" spoken of in John 4 to conclude that it is the Holy Spirit indwellment. John 4 tells us that it is the gift of God and that it is everlasting life, also an indwellment. These are the exact words the scripture declares.

You conclude that the "living water" Jesus speaks of is "His teaching" "His doctrine" "His gospel message" . Can you point to scripture that says this "living water" is in fact all of these? It can only be viewed as an unsupported opinion. I don't see scripture declaring what you have concluded. I do see scripture declaring that the living water is "everlasting" "the gift of God" and the "Holy Spirit". Can you provide text that says it is "His teaching, His doctrine, His gospel message"?

Secondly, let's examine your views; If correct, that this "living water" spoken of in John 7 is "His teaching, His doctrine, His gospel message", then these facts would ring true;

"His teaching" was not yet given until after His glorification.

"His doctrine" was not yet given until after His glorification.

"His gospel message" was not yet given until after His glorification.



God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

And would not the "like He would be given" be in the form of "living water" that is described for us as "the gift of God" that "shall be IN you" and "shall be a well springing up into eternal life" (John 4) ? Is this not the regeneration described in John 3, Spirit gives birth to spirit, new creature is born by the Holy Spirit indwellment?

God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

It is true that Jesus Christ is "the gift of God" when one considers the full counsel of God's word, because many ingredients go into "eternal life". The "gift of God" does not serve divided and seperated. A cake is not a cake unless all of the ingredients are as one.

We can say Jesus Christ is God and this is a true statement. We can say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is God and this is also a true statement and it does not change the truth that one can say Jesus Christ is God or the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God.

Jesus Christ is the "gift of God". Jesus Christ is "eternal life". However, if we wish to split the hairs of the matter, the "gift of God" in this passage, as you say, would be the Holy Spirit. But with that said, receiving the Holy Spirit is also receiving eternal life and recieving Jesus Christ. They are all wrapped up as one in the same as revealed throughout scripture.

Mind the details of the passage.....

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

"If thou knewest the gift of God"........the gift is revealed in this same passage for Jesus tells her the gift He would give her.........."he would have given thee living water".

"and who it is that saith to thee"..........the Messiah is the one who comes from God and is given to the people to teach them all things and is given the power of God to do all things. This the women concedes when she says..."I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things."(vs 25) It is through Jesus alone one can receive this living water which we know from other scripture is the Holy Spirit (Jhn 7:39) and which we also know from other scripture is eternal life (Jhn 4:14).

"thou wouldest have asked of him".......the Messiah has the power to give eternal life, this is what the people searched for, this is what Jesus is come to offer. Jesus must die for the sins of the world, this is the work the Father gave Him to do and He must do it, however the gift that is offered is eternal life and this is through faith in Jesus Christ and is spiritually given as a possession (rebirth) via the Holy Spirit or Living Water.

This same message is given in Luke..... Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Here it is said the Father will give the gift of the Holy Spirit. Is it the Father who will give the Holy Spirit/Living Water or is it Jesus the Son? Do I ask Jesus or do I ask the Father? It is both, one in the same in power. If it is from the Father it is also from the Son, "I and the Father are One" Jesus said. "If you seen Me you seen the Father", He said. "I speak the words the Father gave Me to speak", He said as well.

The "gift of God" is eternal life and that life is in the Son and through faith in the Son. The "gift" is administered by the giving of the Holy Spirit. No Spirit, no life. No Jesus, no life. You cannot have One without the other.

We can split the hairs of this single passage and it would be the Living Water/Holy Spirit which is the offered gift, but the "gift of God" in it's full revelation is eternal life and that life is in faith in the Son, and granted via the Holy Spirit/Living Water indwellment.

Gerhard had said in another thread on this subject that Jesus said He was the Water of Life. I believe he is refering to Jesus saying in Revelation to come and drink freely from the water of life, Now this does proceed out of the throne of God and out of the Lamb/Jesus (Rev 22:1) however a search on "living water" will only turn up the Holy Spirit. Then again we must remember that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all One. One can truly say they have the Spirit of Christ when refering to the Holy Spirit Himself.

So let's be careful not to get hung up on seperate ingredients and rather keep the finished cake in mind! The "gift of God" is "eternal life". "Eternal life" has more than one ingredient as laid out above.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

You see if you made this statement from the pulpit and I was one of your flock I would be scratching my head because in the same sentence (John 4:10) Jesus tells the woman what He would give her and that is "living water". And then when I would have read my references that are in most every bible and it would have lead me to John 7:39 and I would read that this living water is the Holy Spirit.

So you have to be careful to explain "the gift of God" in it's fullness revealed throughout the scriptures and give all the ingredients being careful not to portray that one ingredient can stand apart and alone from another and it still be functional as "the gift of God".

Not to say you would do this, but just to say that "the gift of God" needs to always be first and foremost taught as "eternal life" and the ingredients, even though revealed in seperate passages, should not be presented as somehow seperated from the fullness of the eternal life itself. Not sure that makes sense, but I have to go, you know what I mean by now.:wavey:

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Never denied this.

Being IN mankind for a given moment or period of time for the purpose of God's revelation would not be the same as being IN a man AND quickening the man's spirit to life (born-again) creating a new creature in Christ because the man called on Jesus by faith to be saved from himself and to receive eternal life/living water/Holy Spirit.

Was the donkey "born-again" just because the Holy Spirit entered into it to reveal a message?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

This is my whole point "working out different functions" throughout history.

Now we are getting closer to agreement.

A) We agree the rebirth is receiving the living water function of the Holy Spirit laid out in John 4 & 7.

B) We agree that a person is only born-again once.

C) We agree that the disciples were not born-again three times

D) We agree there are three seperate workings of the Holy Spirit going on in these disciple's lives....

Here is what I contend they are;

1) They were shown by the Holy Spirit that Jesus is the Son of God and believed. Pre-cross.

2) They received the Holy Spirit by Jesus AFTER He was glorified.

3) They received the Holy Spirit/Power at Pentecost.

Three different works of the Holy Spirit.

First, the draw, revealing the truth, pre-cross. (Matt 16:17) The Holy Spirit showed Peter as well as the other believers convicting them of Truth. No mention of the Living Water/Holy Spirit given as of yet. In fact it could not have been given yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified (John 7:39)

Second, the receiving of Living Water/Holy Spirit AFTER Jesus' glorification. First fullfilled in (John 20)

Third, the receiving of the Holy Spirit/Power given, fullfilled at Pentecost. (Acts 1-2)

I am sure by now you disagree. Then explain what Holy Spirit function was given to the disciples in John 20. If you say it was the same as Acts then why did they need the same thing twice and why wait on that which you were already given? Did Jesus just give them a little bit of the Living Water.

Explain how the donkey having the Holy Spirit in it automatically became born of God.

This all surrounds the "living water" blessing of the Holy Spirit. This "living water" blessing of the Holy Spirit is outlined as the rebirth (Jhn 3,4,7). This "living water" blessing of the Holy Spirit was not yet given until Jesus was glorified.

You agree that the Holy Spirit has many functions and performs differing duties. Living water is specifically reserved for post-glorification blessings according to the clear-cut truth of John 7:39.

Your only choice is to abandon the thought that the rebirth includes this living water and I believe this would be difficult to do without cutting out some scriptures.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

but here is the problem brother, John 7:38-39 is specific and says the "living water" was not yet given.

If receiving the "living water" equates to being "born-again" then "born-again" did not occur for anyone until after Jesus' glorification as the scripture declares in John 7.

Is being born-again receiving the living water or not? If it is, there is no way around John 7 in that it was not yet given.

Hey, you didn't answer; Was the donkey born-again because the Holy Spirit entered it?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

That is a which came first, the chicken or the egg argument. I do not believe that one must have a new birth to become a believer. I believe when one believes or accepts the testimony of Jesus Christ (the gospel), one calls on the Lord and then receives the rebirth. This is why Jesus said "ask" for the "living water".

Second, I reject your opinion of "Christ confirms this as fact pre-Cross known to all OT Bible scholars".

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

God Bless! :wavey: