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Borrowing and debt: breaking the record

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Pennsylvania Jim, Dec 3, 2004.

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  1. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    You guys can repeat all the clever slogans that you wish. The numbers don't change. Bush and the GOP have exploded social spending to record proportions.

    If you like that, fine, just don't pose as conservative Republicans.
     
    #21 Pennsylvania Jim, Dec 7, 2004
  2. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Again, put up some facts to prove your point, and refute the chart I posted.

    Yep, when you make empty ego enhancing statements of "fact" I will keep repeating "clever slogans" like "where's the facts" What social spending. If it is so easy to talk about it it ought to be easy to post some lists of all those spendings.

    There maybe a load of them, I keep hearing about it but nobody ever steps to the plate with information to back up their retoric.

    I guess, "So convince me." might be a clever slogan in your eyes, but it is an open invitation to prove yourself correct instead of constant ...... well I'm sure you get the picture I'd like.

    Either list the social spending or stop whining about it because most people will soon assume you don't know what you are talking about.
     
    #22 exscentric, Dec 7, 2004
  3. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Here is a chart that shows the rate of spending increase per year. Notice how Bush and the GOP make Clinton and the Democrats look like conservatives:

    [​IMG]


    Here are quotes from the GOP Website:

    "...President Bush's overall Fiscal Year (FY) 2005 budget represents a 48% increase for elementary and secondary education since FY 2001. It includes an additional:

    · $1 billion in Title I funding for disadvantaged students, for a total that represents a 52% increase since FY 2001.

    · $138 million for reading programs, for a total that is over four times the amount spent in FY 2001.

    · $1 billion for special education programs, in total, an increase of 75% since FY 2001.

    Through the No Child Left Behind Act, these historic levels of support..."


    "...Doubling the budget of the National Institutes of Health will lead to better health care for all Americans. President Bush fulfilled a commitment by completing the historic doubling of the NIH budget by 2003, dramatically increasing medical research funded by NIH to speed cures and treatments for the diseases that plague our nation and the world. ..."


    "...The President's budget in FY 2003 provides $4.5 billion for global climate change-related activities -- a $700 million increase. This includes the first year of funding for a five-year, $4.6 billion commitment to tax credits for renewable energy sources. ..."


    And from This article:

    Much of the $2.2 trillion that Washington is expected to spend in fiscal year 2004 is for mandatory spending on Social Security and Medicare. But so-called discretionary spending has also increased some 22 percent during the Bush presidency, from $734 billion in 2002 to $873 billion in 2004...

    Exhibit A is the expansion of Medicare to include prescription drugs, which President Bush is expected to sign into law Monday. Sold as a $400 billion reform, the real costs could soar past $2 trillion in the second decade
    ...
     
    #23 Pennsylvania Jim, Dec 7, 2004
  4. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Alright, way to go, now you have some validity in your own mind.

    We see you think education, social security, medicare and asistance to seniors for drugs are your social programs that are worthless and that shouldn't be funded.

    I assume you home school, have opted out of social security and will refuse medicare when you get to that age based on your profuse dislike for the above.

    Social security needs an overhaul or dismantle but not till those that are in the system have recieved that which they were promised. Not sure that would be a good item to have listed since it is required to get it funded.

    Now, "global climate change" might not be so great but the other portion of that the energy source thing might get us out of hock with the Arabs and their oil so that might be good to spend a little on, but neither would be "social" in my mind but in yours ......

    At any rate good attempt at backing up your retoric :) thanks!
     
    #24 exscentric, Dec 7, 2004
  5. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    No, most of us here, did not. Kerry is almost as liberal as Bush.

    Note that Clinton reduced the deficit every year of his presidency. Notice Bush raised it every year.

    Notice also that Clinton, by the end of his term, had actually started to pay down the debt, and there was a reduction in the debt for the first time since Carter.

    Of course, that is by accounting rules that ignore Social Security, so it really was just a reduction in the rate of increase. But comparing apples to apples, Clinton was a better republican than Bush.
     
    #25 The Galatian, Dec 7, 2004
  6. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    See? Just like I said...if you like having the Federal government involved in all of these things, fine. Just don't call yourself a conservative.

    If you read carefully, BTW, the articles are pointing out that the increases are in areas IN ADDITION TO Social Security. I agree with you that SS should be phased out, but in a way that provides benefits to those who have paid in.
     
    #26 Pennsylvania Jim, Dec 7, 2004
  7. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Also BTW...like Galatian, I did not vote for Kerry. Like I said, I think you are talking without the necessary facts. Keep talking, though...I enjoy the discussion. You can leave out the thinly veiled insults...I'm not in any contests, I'd prefer to just discuss the issue at hand.
     
    #27 Pennsylvania Jim, Dec 7, 2004
  8. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    The govt owns net assets. Your neighbor who buys toys on credithas net liabilities.
     
    #28 billwald, Dec 7, 2004
  9. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    In fact, if you own your house, it's still stupid to go deeply in debt on the premise that you can always sell your house to pay your creditors.

    Did anyone in the world every imagine that republicans would be defending unrestrained federal spending and increases in federal power over the states and their citizens?

    Taft must be spining in his grave.
     
    #29 The Galatian, Dec 7, 2004
  10. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Amazing, isn't it? If it were the Democrats spending like this, the same people would be all over them, and rightly so.

    Hypocrisy.
     
    #30 Pennsylvania Jim, Dec 8, 2004
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