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Featured Bought versus Redeemed

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    But false teachers also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought (agorazo) them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Pet. 2:1.

    What does it mean that the Master had bought the false teachers? I believe the Master refers to God the Father who provided reconciliation to all mankind from the bondage of their sinful separated from God state with the blood of the Lamb. Christ paid the price and God accepted the price. But what was bought? Propitiation. Christ became our mercy seat, and through Him, we can obtain the righteousness of God. Since by the sin of the One, Adam, the many, all mankind, were made sinners, imprisoned in our separated from God unholy state, Christ’s sacrifice on the cross bought us, all mankind, out of that bondage. We no longer must remain separated from God, because our sins can be washed away by the blood of Jesus.

    Paul put it this way in Colossians 2, “He [God] made you alive together with Him [Christ] [referring to our redemption in Christ], having forgiven us all our transgression [violations of God’s Law].” And how did God accomplish this setting aside the record of our transgressions?

    God blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances, which said because we are unholy sinners we must remain separated from God and be punished. God took it out of the way, when He nailed Christ to the cross. Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

    Christ bought, paid the ransom, for all mankind, thus becoming the means of salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2. However, only when God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness and places us spiritually in Christ, do we receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Lets call this second transaction redemption. Thus mankind was bought with a price, but only those placed in Christ are redeemed
     
  2. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    Why do you think that God would leave it up to mankind--when mankind can do nothing within himself to redeem himself--God didn't leave it up to mankind when he Bought back THAT which was lost in Adam did he ?And God will not leave it up to mankind to be brought to Christ--its a gift from God.

    And even though they rejected him in Christ day--they still were bought with the Blood of Christ--they did bring swift destruction on themselves when the Judgement and wrath of God was released on them when the City and temple were destroyed in AD 70 and over a million lost their lives.

    here it is again--For ALL were condemned in adam and ALL were made righteous through Christ.

    there is a judgment according to men's works--those that have done good and those that have done evil--Both sets of people will face the FIRE--Judgment FIRST begins at the house of God--then to the unbelievers

    The Fire in 2nd Corinthians dealing with what manner of works the people had that burned the wood,hay,stubble---was the same Fire in Revelation-speaking on the lake of Fire--look at the greek word--it is the EXACT SAME WORD--the Fire is to cleanse and purify and to burn out that that is impure--the unbelievers have a lot more to be burned out than the believers--a lot of torment is in store for the unbelievers--BUT MERCY will overtake Judgment and Christ will bring ALL men unto himself :thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  3. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Are you a universalist? That appears to be what you are promoting here. Forgive me if I read it wrong.
     
  4. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    Just what the scriptures teach friend--Read them without all the baggage of traditions and study them out and you shall see :jesus::jesus:
     
  5. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Universalism is NOT what the Scriptures teach. Not ALL will be saved. Some will be damned forever.
     
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    If one finds a general atonement in the OP verse, it raises some questions.

    1. Is there a difference between bought and redeemed?
    2. Even if there is, does not each word result in ownership?
    3. If the price has been paid, then how can any of those bought and redeemed, owned by the Master, who belong to him, be consigned to Hell?
    4. Is there any other place in Scripture where and individual or group is described as bought, but not redeemed.
    5. If Jesus actually bought/redeemed us, what value is there to an atonement which does not save us?

    Just stirring the pot a little bit.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

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    when Jesus said "it is finished", and that he now intercedes to bring His saved tot he father, did he miss some who he died and paid the price for, but who got away?
     
  8. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Not according to Jesus.
    John 6:37
    Nope, none of His will get away.
     
  9. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    your forever word is the greek word aion(which means Age Lasting)not eternal--study this and you will see--yes they will be damned in the lake of fire--but the fire is to purify and cleanse them--the same greek word for FIRE of 2nd Corinthians and Revelation(lake of fire) is the same exact word.

    Now if you tell me that they are burned up forever and ever--then you must say the believers are burned up forever in 2nd Corinthians also--but why not study and see for yourself instead of just taking the tradition that you have heard all your life like so many others do--the works are burned up but the man is saved BY THE FIRE--:godisgood::godisgood:
     
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Active Member

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    ***sniff*** ***sniff*** I'm getting a whiff of ME doctrine floating in the air tonight......could be anutter bannishment coming......
     
  11. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I was thinking the same. Can I say the "H" word yet?
     
  12. RLBosley

    RLBosley Active Member

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    I wanted so much to respond to this immediately and here, but I do not wish to derail the thread.
    So...
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85538

    I beat you to it. ;)
     
  13. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    its ok friends if I get banned for sharing the truth--what will you do in the day of judgment ban God also :godisgood::godisgood:

    Instead of offering truth to the post I used on Fire--you get out the ban hammer--its much easier for you that way- God Bless You All :)
     
  14. RLBosley

    RLBosley Active Member

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    There is no truth in universalism. It is utter heresy and has been rejected by ever orthodox sect of Christianity since Jesus. And I offered a rebuttal to your contention that aion means only an age in the other thread. I noticed you haven't responded.

    Must be easier for you that way.

    I would say God bless you also, but I fear asking God to bless a likely heretic.
     
  15. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

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    still haven't discussed the FIRE--what will you say on forever and forever--if this term is meant eternity--then you have it saying for eternity and eternity?
    Is there 2 eternities--1 eternity goes on without ending--so how can it be eternity and eternity--doesn't make sense--Age lasting fits a lot better in both cases--forever(age lasting) and forever and forever(age of the ages)
     
  16. RLBosley

    RLBosley Active Member

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    I addressed that in my thread "Forever?". If you wish to discuss it further take it there. I do not want to hijack this thread. I am done replying to you on this thread.
     
  17. MB

    MB Active Member

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks you are a universalist
    MB
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    Clarification

    1) Yes, there can be a difference between bought and redeemed. If I buy an oil lease, the oil has been bought with a price, but where is the oil. Still in the ground, therefore not extracted for the purpose of redemption. The Greek word has a range of meaning including bought, bought as in an oil lease, and redeemed as in extraction from being in Adam and transferred to being in Christ.

    2) Yes, mankind was bought with a price, Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all. But this "ownership" does not equate with salvation. Only those who receive the reconciliation benefit from the reconciliation purchased on the cross.

    3) The premise is that we are bought but not necessarily redeemed. Christ provided reconciliation to life for all mankind, but not all mankind has "received" the reconciliation. Therefore to keep the distinction clear, those redeemed have received the reconciliation. Those not redeemed are indeed consigned to Hades/Gehenna. They wee bought but not extracted and placed in Christ where they would have been saved.

    4) Yes many verses teach we were bought, Christ paid the ransom, thus becoming the means of salvation. 1 John 2:2

    5) Again the premise is mankind has been bought but only those God spiritually places in Christ are redeemed. Two different groups. The value of the reconciliation is that it provides the means of salvation for anyone placed spiritually in Christ. Thus the ransom provides the opportunity for salvation to all mankind so that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life, provided the individual "receives" the reconciliation.
     
  19. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    And to say that means you are ignorant of Christian history, which I am not. Perhaps you should study the Alexandrian school of early Christianity.
     
  20. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Banishment for what, expressing an opinion? If someone can be banished for that, this is not a Baptist forum, and that is my opinion.
     
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