"Burn-out"---Real or "Cop-out"?

Now, how is it that you know what she means? I imagine that you probably would not appreciate anyone speaking for you and telling others what you mean. So why would you behave in such a manner?

While this is a true statement, it does not of necessity make the other argument nonsensical. While a person may speak on a subject they have not experienced, experience adds the authority of personal testimony. One may write or speak about the atrocities of Nazi concentration camps; however, a Jew who survived them brings a level of authenticity to the discussion which the uninitiated can not. Speaking of which, there are those who have written that the Nazis did not have concentration camps. Try telling that to a Jew who lived through it.

In the same manner, it is easy for a person to theorize that burn-out does not exist when they have not experienced it. For those who have gone through it or are in the process of doing so, it is very real.

Not only the young and inexperienced go through it, nor those out of God's will, as some have proposed. RevMitchell is right, a long, drawn out spiritual battle can cause the most experienced person to burn-out. But I suppose it would help for one to be spiritual in order to know that.

 

Because I have enough experience in conversations, particularly controversial ones, to know. It's what we all do. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon

Usually when someone says, "Don't listen to them," it is because they don't agree. If this article agreed with abcgrad, I am sure she would be singing its praises.

It is what I do. When I think someone is wrong, I say "Dont put stock in what they say." If I think they are right, then I say, "Listen to them."

If they get it right, it doesn't bother me.

Yes, but it doesn't make it more true or accurate. If someone is right, it doesn't matter whether they have experience.

Sure. But it may not be burnout, no matter how much we want it to be. As I said earlier, it may be. There are legitimate cases. But many are not. It might be a case of unbiblical expectations driven by modern society and psychology rather than biblical teaching.

Very true.

It would also be helpful not to cast aspersions on people who have not yet been identified, like the author of the article in question. I have no idea who he is. We should wait to find out.

 

Some things may only be known by experience and lack there of seriously hinders authority in some cases. Especially in dealing with emotions, as in the case of burn-out.

You are talking about differences in the cause of burn-out, not whether or not it truly is or is not burn-out or fed-up or sick-and-tired or I-just-don't-care-anymore or whatever you may want to call it. Burn-out still has the same effect on a person no matter whether it was self-inflicted, church-inflicted, or devil-inflicted. Un-biblical expectations, modern society, unrealistic sending/supporting church expectations, may all lead to and cause burn-out.

The OP said an author claimed that missionary burn-out was just a cop-out. I also agree that it would be very interesting to read the article for myself, so as to ascertain what was written and the context of how it was said. I also agree that more information is needed before casting judgment on the author.

I believe that if pastors were expected to send out monthly reports, and that if their congregations had the same expectations of them as they do of missionaries, there would be a dramatic increase in pastoral burn-out.

 

Missionaries need to be reminded that Noah was a preacher of righteousness and had no converts except his immediate family and their wives for 120 years!

That is not a slam against missionaries but a bit of encouragement that they too can stand against the discouragement of low numbers of conversions.

The rest of discouragement comes directly from satan, including those who think so boisterously to "blame" them of "copping out":BangHead:

 

You're betting wrong, Pastor Larry. I said what I meant and I meant what I said. If anyone needs clarification, I'm quite capable of doing that myself.:tongue3:

There are many so called "experts" out there, especially in the IFB world. Anyone can have an opinion. Anyone can research and study and give an opinion or educated guess. Not everyone has actually experienced the problem and is qualified to give the best answer.

I would not go to a doctor for knee surgery if all he had done was research it, talk to other doctors and patients, and watch a video on the surgery. I'd go to someone I trusted, someone who had direct experience doing the surgery. The same is true of a spiritual condition.

 

I don't have to experience poison to know it can kill, and advise people not to consume poisons.

What about the surgeon's first experience with any surgery? Where did he become an expert?

I don't need to experience burn out to recognize this strange reaction to everyday situations, or even to resolve the issue with suggestions back to normality.

Even if it happens to be a false diagnosis, it is real that that person, and so we treat it accordingly.

Cheers,

Jim

 

So God's word is insufficient? We need God's word and experience? I don't think you mean that, but you don't seem to have any other option. Someone who has never experienced "burnout" is perfectly qualified to counsel it if they know God's word.

Remember what you just told me? About not speaking for someone else? I know very well what I meant.

I don't.

 

So what am I wrong about? I think you said what you meant and meant what you said. That's my point.

Does that include you?

So researching and studying the word of God is no longer enough? You also have to have experience? Does that qualify for adultery? Theft? Embezzlement? I think Jim addressed this well. It is faulty.

You see, you are ultimately (and unintentionally I am sure) undermining the sufficiency of God's word.

You just changed the criteria. You said it was necessary for someone to experience it. Now you are saying it is only necessary to ahve dealt with it. To be true to your original statement, you would only go to a doctor who had had knee surgery. To be true to this statement, and to what I have said, you would go to someone who understood and had dealt with knee surgery (or burnout) whether or not they had experienced it.

I think you guys seriously need to think about what we mean by the sufficiency of the word. 2 Tim 3:16-17 says that the word is necessary to equip us for every good work. If dealing with burnout is a "good work," then the word is all we need to deal with it. We don't also need experience.

It may give a different perspective (which may not be good). But it is not necessary.

 

Nope, I'm undermining so-called opinionated "experts" who think they are qualified to counsel people simply because they can point to scripture and interpret it their way, while making people feel inferior to them in the process.

We must be careful not to use the phrase "sufficiency of God's word" to cause further harm. For example, I know of an evangelist who preached against anti-depressant medication because "God's word is sufficient." If you take it THAT literally, one should never need to take an aspirin for a headache, or just pray through an illness like cancer and "trust the Lord" instead of going to the doctor.

I'm NOT talking about black and white issues like adultery or theft, which are very clear scripturaly, but issues where man equates mental and emotional distress with a spiritual problem.

 

God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind.

 

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]William MacDonald observes that...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times] [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times] The words a sound mind do not completely convey the thought. They might suggest that a Christian should be sane at all times, free from nervous breakdowns or other mental ailments. This verse has often been misused to teach that a Christian who is living close to the Lord could never be afflicted with any kind of mental ills. That is not a scriptural teaching. Many mental ills can be traced to inherited weaknesses. Many others may be the result of some physical condition not connected in any way with the person’s spiritual life. What this verse is teaching is that God has given us a spirit of self-control or self-mastery. We are to use discretion and not to act rashly, hastily, or foolishly. No matter how adverse our circumstances, we should maintain balanced judgment and act soberly. (MacDonald, W & Farstad, A. Believer's Bible Commentary: Thomas Nelson)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]
[/FONT]

 

When you say that someone needs experience with burnout in order to understand and counsel it, then you are saying that Scripture is not enough; experience is also necessary. Think about it. Don't just respond out of your gut.

I agree.

I don't know who you are talking about. To get into depression and anti-depressants is way past the scope of this forum. It usually leads to a lot of dumb and uninformed things being said.

Total non sequitur. The fact that we should not act one way in certain situations does not mean that we should not act that way in another situation. This is a common argument that is flawed at its foundation.

Is mental and emotional distress ever spiritual? Some fail to note to unity of the human person. Material and immaterial are connected. We can't separate them so easily.

If burnout is caused by someone who overworks themselves, takes too much onto themselves, and ignores God's teaching on life, is that not a spiritual problem?

 

Ok Larry, I'm beginning to understand. Did you write the article? If so, I apologize for calling you an idiot. I disagree with you but you are not an idiot.

 

Of course. I see your point there, but they key to that is "IF burnout is caused by." I believe burnout can be caused by many other factors. Also, one person's definition of burnout might not be the same as another persons.

My problem is not with God's word, it's with people who use God's word to discourage others and make themselves look superior. This is why I believe one needs experience to counsel FROM GODS WORD properly. Someone with experience will have more compassion, in my opinion. Perhaps instead of using the word experience, I should use the word "empathy?"

Anyone can point out verses to condemn others and criticize, which seems to be the intention of the mentioned article. Someone who truly understands burnout would counsel in such a way as to encourage, not beat a person who is already down.

 

No I didn't right the article. I have no idea what article it is, what publication it was in, or who wrote it (which should have all been included). That was my point earlier. Until we know, we can't make any kind of evaluation of what the article actually said. Right now, we know that some article purportedly said something. But what did the rest of it say?

 

All of which makes statements like "If you haven't experienced it then you can't counsel it or speak about it" all the more suspect.

I agree.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. Truth is truth, no matter who is giving it.

How do you know? Have you read the article?

So what if someone claiming "burnout" is actually badly mismanaging their life? Don't they need to be confronted that they are living in problems of their own making?

Again, I think until we know more about the original article, it is not wise to comment on it.

 

While not a pastor, I have went through burn-out myself. For me it came about through a combination of overwork, not enough rest, and boredom (the same ol', same ol').

The human mind and body are not machines and cannot function without proper care... and this involves both physical, mental, and spiritual care. Most pastors are working themselves to the bone trying to be everything for everybody. They ignore their own selves, their families, and their own spiritual needs in doing so.

Needless to say many will literally burn their candle from both ends and then wonder why they have been consumed by the very fire they have been burning to shine as a light for others.

 

Just quoting scripture is NOT the solution to every ill that confronts humankind. Any pastor worth his salt has learned the processes of counselling.Like the alphabet, it starts with the a,b, c's of psychology and concludes with scripture as it fits.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Jim, I imagine you'll catch some fire for that post. I'll just say I wouldn't start with psychology, but with the Bible not just to quote a verse but to examine the issue of burn out which is a real issue whatever the cause.

 

Speaking for myself, I am currently experiencing burnout and already know the Bible forwards and backwards. I don't need to hear another sermon, I just need someone to care enough to listen.

Too often we want to bash people with scripture and spout our opinions when someone is hurting, instead of shutting up and just listening. (Yes, I am including myself here. We are all guilty of this.)

Thank you, Tom, for realizing that burnout is very real and that wise counsel can help.