1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

C. S. Lewis was not a Christian

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Psalm145 3, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is it not obvious that if we must determine what is "Christian" that while there are at least 75 different baptist groups, there are many who we may not consider Christian.

    This is why I am glad God alone is Sovereign and Has determined all things by the counsel of His Will.

    There is no doubt or shadow of turning with Him and known unto Him alone are all His works from the foundation of the world; and that He knoweth them that are His.

    I have no desire to identify them with a judgment from my heart which experience has taught me of my own particular depravity and need of Everlasting Grace and Mercy.

    Let me learn a greater humility that I with meekness teach those who do express a hunger and thirst, that I may be of use to their poor seeking souls toward finding their rest in this world and a hope that extends to the next and not bound to this life only, where we all would be found of all men most miserable.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  2. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark, please take a deep breath.
    If you have too, go read the humor section for a while, to cool off.


    I understand what you are saying, Kinda, I just think you are misunderstanding Lewis' statement.

    He was Anglican. His view of Christ is different than ours. Just because he was not Baptist does not make unsaved.

    The only requirement was for him to put his faith in Christ.

    So please cool off before you say something you don't mean.
     
  3. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is not about having sinners. It is not about a few stray infidels. It is about the fact that the ABC for the past century has granted full equality, if nor preference, to modernist infidels, and is well on it's way to granting the same for those who openly advocate and condone the sin of sodomy.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  4. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    The key is that God spoke to Him.

    Not man.

    Scripture teaches that the children of God are visited of their sins by the Spirit, not by men putting their burdens upon them.

    By the fact that 'tash' received the voice of God is evidence that He is of God.

    Abraham is no different, the African bushman is no different; yet man condemns these because they do not hear their particular brand of the Gospel???

    It is the Spirit that convinces, persuades and causes all who are ordained to eternal life to see and believe the promises, regardless of how far off...Hebrews 11:13

    Bro. Dallas
     
  5. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not asking about baptist groups, Lutherans, Epsiscopalians, etc. I am asking about being saved without knowing the name of Christ.

    I asked if as a New Ager, though I believed in a different Jesus and God than the Bible, if I was saved, and someone on this board refused to answer that. It so happens I know I wasn't saved because God delivered me from those false beliefs, but I find it interesting that someone will not even condemn belief in a false god here.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,606
    Likes Received:
    105
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Careful, please. The use of the word "heretic" is not acceptable language on the BB.

    Thanks, you bunch of heretics! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    (seriously, do NOT call one another such)
     
  7. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,235
    Likes Received:
    76
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I am not asking about baptist groups, Lutherans, Epsiscopalians, etc. I am asking about being saved without knowing the name of Christ.

    I asked if as a New Ager, though I believed in a different Jesus and God than the Bible, if I was saved, and someone on this board refused to answer that. It so happens I know I wasn't saved because God delivered me from those false beliefs, but I find it interesting that someone will not even condemn belief in a false god here.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Even if you think Lewis was wrong about inclusivism, I don't think you can say he is a non-Christian because of it.

    I have no problem saying that all non-Christian religions are false. I would also say all Christian denominations have some falsehood in them, even baptists. I am not a Christian because Christians are right about everything. I am not a baptist because Baptists are right about everything.

    Regarding inclusivism, I consider it to be a possibility that some come to the Father through Christ but not Christianity. I could also be wrong about that possiblity but whether I am right or wrong about it only affects what I believe will happen to other people. I doesn't affect what I believe about Christ, myself and our relationship.
     
  8. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    You must put your trust in Christ to be saved. Christ alone.

    You don't have to be a biblical scholar skilled in Christology to be saved.
    Just child-like faith.

    If Lewis had that, he was saved.
    no matter what denom. he belonged to. No matter what he believed about others getting saved, no matter how messed up his views were about Christianity, as long as he had saving faith he was saved.

    My Grandma was a great Christian, she Trusted Christ for her salvation, yet believed that one had to be baptised in order to be saved.

    I beleive that I will see her in Heaven even though her pastors taught her a messed up doctrine, she knew enough about Christ and lived the life of a Christian. It was somewhat due to her I got saved, we used to have great discussions, she was just hung up on baptism.
    When I was into landmarkism, I didn't beleive she was saved, because she didn't belong to the "true Baptist Church"

    Frogman, I see now where you equate it with RCC.
     
  9. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    What!!! Baptists aren't right about everything!!!!! :rolleyes: [​IMG]
    Man, there goes my message in the morning!!
    Now what am I going to believe? :D :D
     
  10. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    TinyTim,

    First of all, I don't find your attempts to be smart impressive.

    Secondly, I have never said that those who are not Baptists are not saved. Lewis did say that those who aren't Christians could be saved.

    Third, though a man may be wrong about many things and be yet be saved, he cannot be wrong about Christ and yet be saved, for we are saved by believing in Christ. If you redefine Christ and then believe in that, you haven't believed in Christ at all.

    Mark Osgatharp

    [ December 11, 2005, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Mark Osgatharp ]
     
  11. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    My grandfather received open heart surgery 1 month ago.

    He is 84.

    One week ago he received surgery for the removal of a cancerous tumor (they believe to have gotten it all).

    BTW, he smoked for sixty years before quitting, pm me if you wish to know where his cancer was, but I can tell you x-rays reveal he has the lungs of a newborn baby.

    He is now in the University of Louisville Hosp. desiring to go home so badly that he has removed his ventilator, oxygen, a stomach tube, and ivs on two occassions that required his being strapped into his bed; finally his wrists having to be tied. He cannot speak clearly, but writes messages to family members to help him to go home.

    His body is rejecting the pain medication, his blood pressure is consistently low; he is requiring about a pint of blood every two days.

    He damaged his stomach in removing the stomach tube himself and had to undergo surgery wed. and doctors found one of his bypasses bleeding and also had to correct that;

    He is a member of the First Church of God. He and I disagree theologically and doctrinally.

    When I requested prayer for him on a landmark list I am a member of some replied that they could not pray for him because his church association shows him to be unsaved.

    I am losing all affection for the so called landmarker, those who do not know the old landmarks themselves especially.

    Dear Brother Tim, I believe I shall meet your Grandmother when the whole household of faith are brought to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus in perfection...that is the underlying point of this thread brethren.

    It is a hope in the world to come and not in this world only. If in this world only we have hope then we have no hope, we, as Paul said have been baptized for the dead in vain, having believed in vain.

    Let us be about teaching that eternal blessed hope of the church, the people of God. Not tolerating error, but teaching the truth in as much love, seasoned with Grace that we are enabled to do.

    We each have a capability that is innate; only God makes us able. Learn the difference between the two.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  12. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Believing in the church is not believing in Christ.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Frogman,

    Can you give the the address of this list. I'd like to see where someone said they wouldn't pray for a man because he wasn't saved.

    Every Landmark Baptist I know would have gladly prayed for your grandfather, and even moreso if they thought he was not saved.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  14. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll certainly pray for your grandfather!

    I'm going to bed now.
    I have to preach in the morning, I sure wouldn't want to be falling asleep behind the pulpit!!
     
  15. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    My father is 80 years old and was recently diagnosed with Lukemia. He will probablly pass into eternity within the next decade.

    If you ask him "are you saved" he will say, "yes." But he has never given any indicatin that he has any idea what that means and he has never made a profession of faith in Christ, never been baptized, and believes in evolution.

    He acts more a like a Christian than most Christians do. I guess I could follow Mr. Lewis' theology and say that maybe my father knows Jesus but just doesn't know it.

    But then, the gospel won't change because my father doesn't believe it. And if my father, and my whole family for that matter, goes to hell, it won't change God's plan of redemption.

    Next to my own wickedness, I've grieved over my father's spiritual condition more than anything in this world. Too bad I don't have the luxury of adapting my theology to family circumstances.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  16. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
  17. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,

    I see, a man can repeatedly accuse me of believing things I don't believe, accuse my people of preaching things they don't preach, and promote the heresy that people can be saved without believing on Jesus.....

    .....but I can't call him a heretic. Pardon me, but I just don't get it.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  18. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Frogman,

    I preached on that text just a couple of weeks ago. Great text, but I don't know how you think it relates to this discussion.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  19. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Brother Mark,
    I am not and was not offended by your remark.

    'Your' people?

    Dear Brother, many of 'your' people will not acknowledge me as more than a 'friend' except I submit to a baptism in all points like to their own.

    Since I knew Christ long before I knew even a Baptist Baptism, they are proving to me their maxim of His sheep know HIM and they FOLLOW HIM.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  20. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Haven't gone to bed yet, but will here shortly.

    Mark I will pray for your father right now.
    It must be tough. Both of my parents are saved, although I agonize over a couple uncles. One that I doubt seriously was when he died.

    Don't give up hope!
    When i was growing up, I had a pastor whose dad got saved just a year before he died at, I think, 88.
    The funeral was a celebration. there was shouting, and people praising the Lord for saving him at such an age.

    Good night.
     
Loading...