Cafés in churches

[Revmitchell]

"If the gospel must be a failure unless we attract the people by some extraneous method, it is a poor business. If the fly-paper does not attract the flies, and hold them, we may as well burn the flypaper. If your gospel cannot bring the people to hear you, and if, when they come, your gospel will not impress and convert them, well, then, give it up. Open a coffee-shop, or start in the ginger-beer line; but do not call your useless talk the blessed gospel. If you are not conscious of a supernatural power and presence with the Word of the Lord, let it alone." ---Charles Spurgeon, An All-Round Ministry

Amen !:thumbs:

 

[Revmitchell]

I do not have a problem with a cafe so long as it is for the church. If we take issue with that we should get rid of the fellowship hall and kitchen in most churches. But we are to go out into the streets to reach the lost.

 

[sag38]

Jerome, how many people are being reached by your church? Is it just a few a year or what? I'd be interested to know. Many who bemoan a different style or say that we shouldn't use this method or that method aren't doing a thing themselves. But hey, they are happy with their little church with it's little traditions, smug in their righteousness, while people all around them are going to hell. But, they aren't going to change one iota to try to reach them. I haven't read anywhere in the Bible where it says "Thou shalt no have a cafe in the church building." I'm not saying that's you but that's been my experience.

 

[Jerome]

Wow. Where you got that from the quote from Spurgeon is beyond me.
I agree with you that your post is about you rather than me.
Like Eli told Samuel, it wasn't me who said that.

 

[David Michael Harris]

I think it's a great idea. Great way to evangelize.

 

[sag38]

Ok Jerome. You still didn't answer my question. Plus, what did you mean by your quote?

 

[Jerome]

The light shining in the darkness is not "Hot Doughnuts Now".

 

[Jon-Marc]

Every church I've been in has a kitchen and a room where they have potlucks. I have never seen one with a cafe where they sold food. No Baptist church I've been in would do that, although they do allow visiting singing groups to sell their music CD's, etc, in the front entrance.

 

[Jerome]

Banquetvangelism:thumbs:
Ernest Angley's Grace Cathedral Buffet

Oddball Ohio: A Guide to Some Really Strange Places by Jerome Pohlen (p. 65)

Cuyahoga Falls
Cathedral Buffet and the Life of Christ Display
When Rex Humbard sold the Cathedral of Tomorrow to Ernest Angley, little did he know that Angley would transform the complex from the Birthplace of Televangelism to the Birthplace of Banquetvangelism. Angley, known to television viewers for his white-bread miracles (viewers were sometimes asked to press slices of bread to their television sets to receive a blessing) has now opened a 1,000-seat banquet hall where, presumably, all the bread is holy.

 

[Harold Garvey]

You win them with a hotdog, you'll lose them on a hamburger.

 

[Mexdeaf]

This thread has taken an idiotic turn.

It's perfectly all right to bribe kids with hot dogs and candy to get them to ride a church bus, but it's not all right to offer coffee to adults, free or at a nominal charge?

Some of the ministries that have the most effective outreaches to the community have cafes and bookstores that are open 6 or 7 days a week. People do not find God only on Sunday morning from 11:00 a.m. to 12 noon, but that is the way most churches operate.

 

[sag38]

Right on Mex. It's sad the way some will criticize what others are doing even though they can't find a scripture anywhere that says "Thou shalt no have a coffee cafe in your church."

 

[SolaSaint]

I guess I'd have to side on whether a cafe in church glorifies God. If you are just attempting to look trendy or worldly to attract unbelievers then I'm not sure this is good. Why not open a bar if that is the case. I feel real strange going to new churches where you feel like you're in a shopping mall. I want to be in church where the gospel is taught and preached and if a little coffee bar is added for the members and guests to drink in SS or before worship then that is OK, but I don't see the full blown Starbucks kind of thing being a good way to go. IMO

 

[rbell]

This thread has taken an idiotic turn.

It's perfectly all right to bribe kids with hot dogs and candy to get them to ride a church bus, but it's not all right to offer coffee to adults, free or at a nominal charge?

Some of the ministries that have the most effective outreaches to the community have cafes and bookstores that are open 6 or 7 days a week. People do not find God only on Sunday morning from 11:00 a.m. to 12 noon, but that is the way most churches operate.

I'm amazed (well, no, not really...I've come to expect it) that people come to the conclusion of, "Hey...I've seen several folks in that church with coffee cups. You know that means they don't preach the Gospel."

Now that's just silly. Who here suggested we should do these things instead of the Gospel?

Just the other night, I was at our church until 2 a.m., with some neighborhood kids (isn't that sad that they had the option of being out at 2 a.m.? ANd their parents didn't even care...) We drank cappuccinos, played pool, and talked about Jesus.

Tonight, two of them are getting baptized, after turning their hearts over to Jesus. The other two are close.

I know that we're doing what Jesus wants us to here. If our "cafe" ever gets in the way of that, we should shut it down. But if not, maybe it can be a tool.


BTW...we do what was mentioned earlier: We will ask for donations just to cover expenses. Nothing more.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Some churches I've been to have a coffe and donut fellowship time for 15 minutes just prior to the Sunday School time, and they don't charge for it. I would consider them really cheap if they did.

 

[annsni]

I had posted to this thread but I guess I didn't hit "submit reply". LOL

Our church has a cafe that was put in the youth building (a wing of our church). It's open after youth group on Wednesday and Friday nights and we tend to either JUST cover the costs of our supplies or else we lose a little money. Additionally, we have a singles' cafe once a month (we had it last night) and we serve free coffee and appetizers and dessert. However, this is in our Fellowship Hall and not the cafe. We don't have anything on Sunday morning though. Oh - we DO have refreshments for the handicapped Sunday school and coffee in our "Hospitality Suite" where anyone new to the church can go, get coffee and maybe a danish and meet with the pastors.

 

[tinytim]

Some churches I've been to have a coffe and donut fellowship time for 15 minutes just prior to the Sunday School time, and they don't charge for it. I would consider them really cheap if they did.

I consider people cheap that would refuse to donate to the "Coffee can" but be the first to eat as many donuts, or drink the coffee...

I have seen this in both a church setting and a business setting..
A little can would be set aside to buy the donuts and coffee.. and some would NEVER donate, but eat 3 to 4 donuts a week, and always drink the coffee...

Those are cheapskates... change even helps!

 

[Edward 1689er]

Having a coffee house inside a church is only an attempt to be like the world to reach the world. Sad, really, yet the masses will just about do anything in the name of "evangelism.'

 

[annsni]

Having a coffee house inside a church is only an attempt to be like the world to reach the world. Sad, really, yet the masses will just about do anything in the name of "evangelism.'

And your evidence or Scripture to support this would be?????

 

[abcgrad94]

Having a coffee house inside a church is only an attempt to be like the world to reach the world. Sad, really, yet the masses will just about do anything in the name of "evangelism.'

Not necessarily. I don't think it's up to us to automatically judge something different as worldly and wrong. We shouldn't judge the motives of other people's hearts just because they aren't stuck in tradition.

In my experience it wouldn't be needed, because we have a small church and lots of other opportunities outside of church to drink coffee or fellowship. This wouldn't work with the appalachian culture here, but I cannot speak for other, larger churches. If being all things to all men wins some, I cannot condemn them.

After reading the other thread about eating out after church on Sunday, I wonder if having a church-run cafe would help eliminate some of the problems talked about in that thread. It's something to think about, anyway.