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Featured Calvinism and Aminianism and their influence on Adventist belief

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Hobie, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    I went into both sides and I came across the tension between Calvinism and Arminianism . But I am not what you would call an expert on it by any stretch of the immaginatin, so please feel free to give more insight.

    According to Calvinism:
    "Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation."

    Thus they stand against the freewill of man being turned to God on its own as seen in the following statement...

    "... and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, ‘If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.’ It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that He gives both; that He is ‘Alpha and Omega’ in the salvation of men." (Charles H. Spurgeon from the sermon ‘Free Will A Slave’ (1855) referring to Luther's book The Bondage of the Will which is listed with other resources on this topic after this article).

    Now Arminianism attempts to explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will, especially in relation to salvation. While Calvinism emphasizes the sovereignty of God, Arminianism emphasizes the responsibility of man. If Arminianism is broken down into five points, similar to the five points of Calvinism, these would be the five points:

    (1) Partial Depravity – humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that we cannot chose to come to God on our own. We are capable of choosing to accept salvation or reject it without any influence from God. Note - classical Arminianism rejects "partial depravity" and holds a view very close to Calvinistic "total depravity."
    (2) Conditional Election – God chose who would be saved based on knowing beforehand who would believe. God chooses those who He knows will believe.
    (3) Unlimited Atonement – Jesus died for everyone, even those who are not chosen and will not believe. Jesus’ death was for all of humanity, and anyone can be saved by belief in Him.
    (4) Resistible Grace – God’s call on a person’s life to be saved can be resisted and/or rejected. We can resist God’s pull towards salvation if we choose to.
    (5) Conditional Salvation – Christians can lose their salvation if they continue in a life of sin and/or fall away from God. The maintenance of salvation is required for a Christian to retain it.

    Now some modern Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security." Now the only point of Arminianism which Calvinists would agree is point #3 – Unlimited Atonement as they see as most Christians that the Bible indicates that Jesus died for the sins of everyone in the entire world. 1 John 2:2 says, “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” 2 Peter 2:1 says that Jesus even bought the wicked who will reject him such as false prophets who are doomed: “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves.” Jesus’ death and atonement is available to everyone who will believe in Him. Jesus did not just die for those who will be saved but for the whole world, but only those who accept His gift gain eternal life.

    Calvinism tends to not agree with the other four points of Arminianism pointin to Romans 3:10-18 which they feel argues for total depravity and that Romans 8:28-30 as showing that conditional election underemphasizes God’s sovereignty. Calvinist feel that resistible grace underestimates the power and determination of God and that conditional salvation makes salvation a work rather than a gift of grace

    Adventism tends towards the Arminian (Free Will) view and away from Calivinism and this cause some conflict with Calvinist, for those who remember the dialogues initiated with Adventist by evangelicals Donald Barnhouse and Walter Martin, who sought clarification on what Adventists believed. The ones who fought the hardest from accepting Adventist were the Calvinist theologians and church leaders such as evangelical Anthony Hoekema (who felt Adventists were more in agreement with Arminianism), who argued that some Adventist doctrines were heterodox and did his best to keep them from being accepted.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God made man to have his own will. The tension between "free will" and God's sovereign will in saving men is that a man cannot have any merit in obtaining salvation as a free gift from God. Man must choose God's will over his self will which means a man cannot take any credit whatsoever in choosing to believe.
     
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  3. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Adventists traditionally were anti-trinitarian. They tend toward modalism. Closer to Church of God than to true trinitarian churches.
    The Doctrine of the Trinity Among Adventists: A Review
     
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  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Huh?
    Church of God is not trinitarian?
    Please explain that one.
     
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  5. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    The Worldwide Church of God, Herbert Armstrong. An anti-trinitarian cult.
     
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  6. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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  7. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Here is from Wikipedia, in which I am a editor, has on the doctrines which Seventh-day Adventists have which are the central doctrines of Protestant Christianity:

    The Trinity, the incarnation, the virgin birth, the substitutionary atonement, justification by faith, creation, the second coming, the resurrection of the dead, and last judgment.

    In Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine (1957), four authors outlined the core doctrines that they share with Protestant Christianity.

    "In Common With Conservative Christians and the Historic Protestant Creeds, We Believe—
    1. That God is the Sovereign Creator, upholder, and ruler of the universe, and that He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

    2. That the Godhead, the Trinity, comprises God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    3. That the Scriptures are the inspired revelation of God to men; and that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and practice.

    4. That Jesus Christ is very God, and that He has existed with the Father from all eternity.

    5. That the Holy Spirit is a personal being, sharing the attributes of deity with the Father and the Son.

    6. That Christ, the Word of God, became incarnate through the miraculous conception and the virgin birth; and that He lived an absolutely sinless life here on earth.

    7. That the vicarious, atoning death of Jesus Christ, once for all, is all-sufficient for the redemption of a lost race.

    8. That Jesus Christ arose literally and bodily from the grave.

    9. That He ascended literally and bodily into heaven.

    10. That He now serves as our advocate in priestly ministry and mediation before the Father.

    11. That He will return in a premillennial, personal, imminent second advent.

    12. That man was created sinless, but by his subsequent fall entered a state of alienation and depravity.

    13. That salvation through Christ is by grace alone, through faith in His blood.

    14. That entrance upon the new life in Christ is by regeneration, or the new birth.

    15. That man is justified by faith.

    16. That man is sanctified by the indwelling Christ through the Holy Spirit.

    17. That man will be glorified at the resurrection or translation of the saints, when the Lord returns.

    18. That there will be a judgment of all men.

    19. That the gospel is to be preached as a witness to all the world."[38]

    The theology of the Seventh-day Adventist Church resembles that of Protestant Christianity, combining elements from Lutheran, Wesleyan/Arminian, and Anabaptist branches of Protestantism. Adventists believe in the infallibility of Scripture and teach that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ. The 28 fundamental beliefs constitute the church's official doctrinal position.
     
  8. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    One of my friends on a forum posted the following list which comes from Steve Wohlberg's (an SDA pastor and theologian) website.
    'This comes from a page entitled "We Believe..." and I think it speaks accurately of the general SDA attitude:

    1. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) is fully inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16)

    2. God created our world in six literal, 24-hour days, and rested on the seventh day (Gen. 1; 2:1-3; Exodus 20:11).

    3. Satan (a fallen angel), led Eve into sin (Gen. 3:1-6; Isaiah 14:12-14; Rev. 12:9)

    4. Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14)

    5. Jesus Christ has revealed to the entire human family God's loving character (John 3:16; 14:9)

    6. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man (John 1:1-3, 14; 1 Tim. 2:5)

    7. Jesus was born of a virgin and died on the cross for the sins "of the whole world" (Matthew 1:23; 1 Cor. 15:3; 1 John 2:2)

    8. On the third day (Sunday morning), Jesus rose from the dead, as predicted in advance by the Scriptures (Luke 24; 1 Cor. 15:3,4)

    9. God is not prejudiced against any race, color, or nation (Acts 17:26; Rom. 2:11; Rev. 7:9)

    10. Eternal life is a free gift through Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:23)

    11. God's love brings a sinner to repentance (Rom. 2:4)

    12. God calls all to repent and believe in Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21)

    13. We must be born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6,7)

    14. Believers in Jesus should be baptized by immersion (Mat. 3:16,17; Mark 16:15; Acts 2:38,41)

    15. We should follow God's Word above man's traditions (Mat. 4:4; Col. 2:8)

    16. We should treat everyone with love and respect (Eph. 4:25, 5:1, 9)

    17. We should keep ourselves "unspotted from the world" (James 1:27)

    18. We are living in "the time of the end" (Daniel 12:4,10)

    19. By His grace and motivated by love, God's end-time people will keep the Ten Commandments and the faith of Jesus Christ (John 14:15; Rev. 14:12)
    20. Christians should endure tribulation "to the end" (Mat. 24:13; Acts 14:22)

    21. The Antichrist of prophecy is "already in the world" (1 John 2:18; 4:3)

    22. The major Protestant Reformers were correct about the Antichrist.

    23. Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and fallen humanity (1 Timothy 2:5)

    24. Jesus will not return secretly, but openly and visibly for all to see (Mat. 24:26,27,30,31)

    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]25. There will be "a resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust" (Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29)

    [/FONT]26. Jesus Christ is "the seed of Abraham" (Galatians 3:16)

    27. True believers in Jesus Christ - Jews and Gentiles - become part of Abraham's seed, "the Israel of God" (Gal. 3:28,29; 6:14-16)

    28. Our final home is the New Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22-24; Rev. 21:1-4, 10-27)

    29. All the lost will end up in "the lake of fire, which is the second death" (Revelation 20:14,15)

    30. God will make a new heaven and a new earth for His people to live in, where righteousness dwells (2 Peter 3:9-14)

    31. The truth of the Bible is bigger than any church or denomination.
     
  9. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    I would tend to agree, except that man must still choose, God cannot force him. This is where the Holy Spirit must come, and like the wind, guide man and bring him to God.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have to choose to believe 1 + 1 = 2? Once a truth is actually heard and so understood as such, the choice is made, Romans 10:17-18, Psalms 19:4. John 17:17. 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." Acts of the Apostles 5:31, ". . . to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. . . ." Acts of the Apostles 11:18, ". . . God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. . . ."
     
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  11. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit which is as Christ said, like the wind, beats against each and every one of us, calling us to what is from God. Now we can accept its guidance or reject it, that is our freewill, and this 'causes' a reaction.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That interpretation needs more explaination than just arguing that. Otherwise it is one's will opposed to God's will.
     
  13. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Well, we are transformed through the work of the Holy Spirit, and we then are able to have the 'Mind of Christ' that scripture says. The transformation of a true Christian so he is guided to Christ and then sin is cleansed from his heart and mind is from the Holy Spirit, but we must come to a point where we chose from free will as the Holy Spirit presses, and then our lives begin to show the fruits of the Holy Spirit. I like this text:

    1 Corinthians 2:12-16 King James Version (KJV)
    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is not what Jesus said.
    Yes. But, Jesus said, in John 3: ,". . . Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. . . ." Which is about one after the new birth.
     
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    For the record, everyone can be an editor on Wikipedia...
     
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  16. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Listening to each man explain and defend the Adventist Trinity, it was apparent that Adventism is fighting back against a persistent and growing movement within Seventh-day Adventism toward Arianism and anti-trinitarianism.

    The energy behind the anti-trinitarian movement is the fact that the Adventist pioneers were almost all Arian or semi-Arian and anti-trintarian. Leaders are pushing back because Adventism claims to believe and teach the Trinity. Nevertheless, the view they promote is not the Three-In-One Who shares one substance—the classic Christian Trinity. While none of the four men interviewed ever articulated how the Adventist Trinity is different from the Christian Trinity, their arguments were clearly defending a different “Godhead”.

    To an Adventist mind, the Three of whom Jesus is One are three separate individuals who together are called “God”. (Adventists often teach that these three are like a family bearing the name “God”.)

    We don’t believe there is one God with three images; we believe there are three beings who are one God. The crucial difference is that in the modalism view, it’s impossible to conceive of love existing. In the covenantal view of the Trinity, love is conceivable because love by its very nature—love is a dynamic.

    So a solitary person with no other beings in existence cannot experience love because love by its definition is other-centeredness. It’s reciprocal. It’s a relationship. One solitary being cannot experience any love. In our view of the Trinity—the Seventh-day Adventist view and the view held by other Protestant Christians, not all but many—the Father is a personal being, the Son is a personal being, the Holy Spirit its a personal being. They can converse; they love one another; they are friends; they have fellowship; they enjoy one another’s company, and they all—each of the three—are participating in different ways in the salvation of the human race. It’s an actual relationship of love.”

    He described a tritheism.

    He is very clear that the Adventist “Trinity” is three beings who work together, play together, and love together; it is three separate beings who share an identity. In fact, this Adventist “Trinity” is the opposite of the Christian Trinity.

    ADVENTISM’S LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
     
  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    “First,” Mueller said clearly, “our [Adventist] understanding of ‘Trinity’ is not completely the same as other churches.” At least Mueller was honest enough to admit this fact. Gibson attempted to normalize the Adventist belief, but Mueller knows and stated the truth.

    “Second,” he continued, “there may be the feeling that we are so different from other churches that we need to be different in the Trinity.”

    Then Mueller stated that third, “there is the issue of our pioneers. They had problems in the beginning with questions of Trinity…it was an open question…I think the first generation of Christians was faced with the question: there is one God, and now there is Jesus. What do we do with that?”

    Mueller strongly urged that people with Trinity questions be allowed to question. Adventists should be willing dialogue with questioners unless they are creating disunity and splitting the church apart, he advised.

    Interestingly, his position, like that of the other theologians questioned, is far more open to discussion of Arian ideas and trinitarian questioning than Christians’ positions would be. The fact that Adventism does not hold to the classic Christian Trinity places them outside the parameters of Christian orthodoxy and leaves them without an established foundation of biblical truth from which to assess and guide members’ beliefs.

    Mueller confirms the Adventist commitment to seeing three separate beings comprising the Trinity. They want a “loving” God, but they do not consider how justice, wrath, mercy, grace, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience all help define the love of our triune God.

    ADVENTISM’S LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
     
  18. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    And how is one born of the Spirit, you have to accept Christ. The first work of the Gospel in our life is changing our path from sin and cleansing from sin, this prepares us for the infilling of the Holy Spirit in our life.

    Ezekiel 36:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    The promise in these verses has two parts. The first is to give us a new spirit; that is, our own spirit is renewed and quickened by the work of the Holy Spirit. When this has been done, the rest of the promise states, "I will put My Spirit within you" to dwell in you, then we see the results. I like these verses:

    1 John 4:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
    12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
    13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

    2 Corinthians 3:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
    3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
    4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Ephesians 2:8, ". . . that not of yourselves: . . ."
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 3:11 says otherwise, ". . . There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. . . ."
     
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