1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Calvinism opposing Calvin??

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Just shows that even the very best God gifted teachers who were not Apostles can and are wrong in some aspects of their theology!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    We know the Spirit came upon people before the New Testament. However, the NT makes it clear that Jesus Christ was the first born of the New Covenant.

    "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." (Col 1:18)
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Firstborn of the dead - Firstborn of the resurrection.

    HankD
     
  4. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    127
    Faith:
    Baptist
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    what was deleted?


    HankD
     
  6. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    127
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nothing of any consequence. God Bless
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Beauclair Bouchard

    Beauclair Bouchard New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    4
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes Calvin and Luther had a mutual respect for each other. Luther was accepting of Calvin's view of communion. The problem came between "Calvinist's" and "Lutheran's"
     
  8. Beauclair Bouchard

    Beauclair Bouchard New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    4
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes Calvin was very clear and articulate on his view and did favor Luther more than Zwingli.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Too bad neither have them had the correct viewpoint regarding this though!
     
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Guess Paul forgot about Lazarus....
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Firstborn does not necessarily mean first in the series but first in preeminence or rank.

    Psalm 89
    20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
    21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
    22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
    23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
    24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
    25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
    26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
    27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

    HankD
     
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Paul's definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1 demands faith has both "substance" and "hope" as inseparable aspects of its character. Regeneration in part, is the creation of these two aspects within the human heart in connection with the gospel. The advancement of the gospel to the outward ear produces nothing but rejection. However, when the Holy Spirit empowers the gospel as his creative word, it is the power of God that calls into existence within the darkened human heart both the "substance" and "hope" of faith as described by Paul in 2 Cor. 4:6 where he likens the empowerment of the Gospel as the "command" of God that effectually called light into a dark world (Gen. 1:2-3). When the gospel comes internally in power it produces "the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 4:6). This metaphorical light is "knowledge" or the "substance" implanted in the heart that makes God known through Christ which is eternal life (Jn. 17:3). Also, "the glory of God IN THE FACE of Jesus Christ" implants the gospel "hope" withing the heart thus saving faith is created of which Christ, who is God in the flesh is therefore "the author" as well as its finisher (heb. 12:2). This is precisely how Paul says the elect can know they are the elect (1 Thes. 1:4). When the gospel comes "not in word only BUT in power and in the Spirit and in much assurance" so that they are transformed in character like unto those who preached the gospel, they then can know they are the elect (1 Thes. 1:5-6).

    Faith cometh by the RHEMA of God - His command (Rom. 10:17 with 2 Cor. 4:6 "command") rather than merely or only by the RHEMA of men (Rom. 10:18-19) which is powerless and futile.
     
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    God says "I will make" him my firstborn. That would be first in a series.
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,149
    Likes Received:
    293


    :eek:
    Acts 10
    . 28And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.


    ::: PUTS GLASSES ON:::::Cool

    . 28And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should call ALL MEN unholy and unclean.

    I could do this all day.....bout 150 verses:Ninja
     
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    David was not the firstborn of Jesse, in fact he was the last, but you already knew that.

    HankD
     
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Psalm 89 is speaking about Messiah, Jesus Christ, not David, but you already knew that.
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    He is the "firstborn" from the dead in a glorified body. Lazerus was never raised in a glorified body.
     
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes i knew that but you already knew that.

    :)

    HankD
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    And.....? Your making no sense. God said he would MAKE messiah His Firstborn. This then would be first in a series.
     
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "make" - Do I have to explain everything to you steaver?

    David was not Jesse's firstborn but God made him firstborn in order to make him king (kings had to be firstborn) over Israel.
    God decreed him (David) firstborn to make him king of Israel.

    People had been raised from the dead before Jesus resurrection from the dead
    1 Kings 17:17-22
    2 Kings 4:18–37
    Luke 7:11–17
    Luke 8:52–56
    John 11.

    David is a biblical metaphorical model of Jesus status as Firstborn from the dead.

    Jesus though not the first in the series of those raised from the dead has been declared by God as the Firstborn from the dead.

    But you already knew this I suspect.

    HankD
     
Loading...