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Featured Calvinism's conumdrum, Is God the Author of sin?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Apr 7, 2015.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes.
    Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    God doesn't choose for man, does he?

    He that believes NOT is damned.

    It is basic theology. No one should ever take Calvin 101, if that is where you are getting your soteriology from.
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    To put it simply and clearly:

    God's command to every believer is summed up in verse 15:
    1. Go into all the world.
    2. Preach the gospel to every creature.
    --That is the obligation of every Christian.

    The duty of all mankind is to respond to the gospel that is preached:
    1. If man believes he shall be saved.
    2. If man does not believe he shall be eternally damned.

    This same truth is repeated in every gospel and in the book of Acts.
    In fact it is repeated many times over.
     
  3. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


    God created Lucifer, evil iniquity was found in him. This is talking about king of Tyrus, but referring to the one who brought doubt into the world of God's word you shall surely die.

    Darkness isn't evil, it's what we do in the darkness that is evil, that we think we are doing in secret, but God knows.

    We should believe in God, He created everything and everyone. We should fear(revere) God's word not man who is evil and created by God.

    That is what I get from your verse you presented.
     
    #43 psalms109:31, Apr 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2015
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The problem though with that is that per the scriptures, we are bound up and enslaved by our sin natures, and so cannot and do not even desire to "come to Christ", so any of us who got saved needed to have God step in and chose to save us!
     
  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    [​IMG]
     
  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    BINGO!... Brother Glen
     
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    [​IMG]...Brother Willis
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is not what the passage says. You have to read that into the passage. (eisigesis). You have to have some pre-conceived ideas in order to get that message. Anyone not knowing Calvinism would never come to that conclusion. Thus your bias clouds your interpretation here.

    In all the dozens of passages where this plain message is given it is never qualified by any teaching that you just gave--and that teaching,IMO, comes from the misunderstanding of a couple of well known texts.
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Your man-made tradition and personal philosophy constantly misguides you when it comes to a correct understanding of the Word of God DHK.
    Teaching from the Scriptures that declare :

    that we were enemies of God
    That we had enmity against Him
    That were spirtually blind
    That we were bound up in sin --a virtual slavehouse
    That we were lost
    That we were without hope
    That we were without God in this world

    Those doctrines taken from the Word of God have no other interpretation. Without the Lord's "overwhelming interference" in the lives of His own --we could not be saved. The Father mercifully draws us to the Son. We have no might, power, ability, insight, keen perception or anything else residing in ourselves. Our salvation is entirely due to Him and Him alone. He is the Author and Finisher of our Fath.

    As long as you give merit of any kind to the creature coming to God on his own --you will never grasp the spiritual truth of this serious matter.
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Post 49 sums up the futility of those who try and substitute carnal philosophy for the word of God. It is just not going to happen.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets see: God predestines everything, including our each and every sin according to Calvinism. But God is not the author of sin, according to Calvinism. Those who embrace this cognitive dissonance appear detached from reality.
     
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You are a typical Calvinist that takes scripture out of context to try and uphold unbiblical doctrine. Even the partial quotes of scripture here are taken out of context. They don't mean what you infer them to mean. Your study of the Bible is so shallow.
    These phrases come from Ephesians two. Have you any idea what this chapter is talking about?

    Verses 1-10 form one section of the chapter, of which there has been considerable discussion. But beginning with verse 11, Paul begins a new topic.
    Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    Continuing from where he began in verse one, they were once Gentiles in the flesh, uncircumcised in the flesh. He is drawing a comparison. And he is using circumcision in this comparison.
    As Gentiles they are uncircumcised; as unsaved Gentiles they were spiritually uncircumcised.

    Therefore:
    As the text says, and you quoted,
    that we were enemies of God
    That we had enmity against Him
    That were spirtually blind
    That we were bound up in sin --a virtual slavehouse
    That we were lost
    That we were without hope
    That we were without God in this world

    But you have taken that out of context. What is Paul teaching.
    He is teaching this in context of circumcision.

    What happened?
    Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    --Christ preached to them that were afar off (the Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (the Jews) [the uncircumcised and circumcised alike):

    Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    --That both Jew and Gentile might have access by one Spirit.

    Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    --Now these Gentile believers are not to be strangers and foreigners any longer. Here was a church that had received attacks from Judaizing false teachers--that in order to be saved one had to be circumcised and accept the Law. Paul corrects that teaching and tells them that they already have been spiritually circumcised and are part of the household of God.
    Both Jew and Gentile (after trusting Christ) are one in Christ. They both make up the household of God.

    The middle-wall of partition is that "wall" of division that existed between the Jew and the Gentile. That is the context.

    In your twisted interpretation you have "gentiles" lost and without God and without hope," but unsaved Jews are not lost, and without God and without hope." That is not what Paul was teaching. According to you that is what he taught. Garbage!
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    God predestinated others to be the author of sin !
     
  14. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    Argumentum ad ignorantiam at it's best. :laugh: Your inability to grasp this theological antinomy is a result of a lack in your comprehension, not others.
     
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    God didn't have to predestine others to be the author of sin. Adam sinned, we sinned in Adam. We act in accordance to our nature. Adam fell, and w/o God drawing us, we sin...
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And therefore, as you previously said, God Himself is the Author of sin.
    And you believe that.
    You are right SBM.
    This is the logical outcome of the tenets of every Calvinist. They just don't have the intestinal fortitude to admit it.
     
  18. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
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    I didn't get that from SBM's quote. I do believe God made people who sin but that does not mean He made people sin. That's like saying pigs kill people. It is the choice of people who eat too much pork and the high blood pressure that results from it that kill people.
     
    #58 robustheologian, Apr 13, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2015
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    He is, He is the Author and Maker of the ones who sinned. When they sinned they only did what He authored, determined, destined for them to do ! The God I serve and Worship is the Author of sin for His Redemptive Purpose in Christ !
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God is Holy and pure, in Him is no darkness, and he cannot tempt us to sin, as that would go against His very nature, and Calvinists do NOT hold that God caused satan and adam to sin against him, as both of them made your vaunted 'free will choosing!"

    Since both of them chose to sin in a perfect environment, how can we who are sinners by birth do anything less than they did, apart from the saving work of God towards us?
     
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