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Calvinists: How is God NOT a sinner?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ivon Denosovich, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Here we can see what can only be described as a hermeneutical catastrophe.

    1. In the Luke passage, this is a parable. Jesus is telling a story; He is not saying "blind chance" exists, as you imply.

    The Greek indicates a coming together of circumstances, not "chance."

    2. The Ecclesiastes passage is discussing death and how it can (and does) fall on men suddenly.

    The Hebrew translated as "chance" is better understood as occurrence.

    Nowhere in these passages is "chance" talked about in the way you suggest.

    It really is amazing what you can do with a word-search program, isn't it? Isn't it also amazing how one can proof text by using the aforementioned word-search program and coupling that with an absolute disregard for context or theology? Sad indeed.

    The Archangel
     
  2. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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    The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD.
     
  3. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    The last time you sinned, do you believe you could have done otherwise? Could you have willingly resisted that temptation? Or did God determine that you would do that so that you couldn't have done otherwise?




    We keep using different phraseology but without making the distinction. You don't like it when I say it appears God caused sin, but then you say, "He brought it to us." You need to better define your meaning because I don't see how this phrase is any different.


    These are two different things in my view. Something can be out from under God's control (under his permissive will) but not be by "accident" or without a "purpose."

    But there is another, better, option.

    God, having given this world over to the prince of darkness, permitted the evil one to rule this world and the effects of sin and depravity to take hold. Thus, God, not desiring or finding pleasure in the disaster of the tree crushing the child can redeem every situation for his glory and the greater redemptive good (Rm. 8:28). God does not desire evil nor does he decree it (or in any way cause it...he only permits it). He has given over this world to darkness and permits it to suffer the consequences of that sin. The good news is that God is in Christ reconciling the world to himself and has given us the ministry of reconciliation. Thus, we implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

     
  4. olegig

    olegig New Member

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    Esther 4:
    14For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?


    Make no mistake, God's plan will happen whether we are His willing instrument or not; but if not, He will find another.
     
  5. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    A quick comment on this. First, although it can be that Esther serves as a type of Christ here, the passage speaks more directly to historic providence rather than salvific election and predestination. Second, whether providence or salvific predestination is the intended message or not, in either case the words "who knoweth whether" favor the Reformed understanding of the passage. We do not know who is elect and who is not, until someone confesses faith and bears some measure of resultant fruit; niether do we know whether someone has been chosen to be the means of deliverance or not until after the deliverance has become reality.
     
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Strongs Corcordance disagrees with you. The word chance in Luke 10:31 is defined as:

    1) accident, by chance

    But I'm sure you consider yourself a greater scholar than James Strong and the over one hundred Greek and Hebrew scholars who helped him publish his concordance.

    You should write your own concordance, I'm sure it would be a great success.
     
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