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Can a believer sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by James_Newman, Aug 2, 2007.

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  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I'm sure I could search and find a hundred threads on this subject! But I still want to talk about it anyway. I'm going to say no, and here's my verse.
    James 3:11-12
    11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
    12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

    FWIW, I am going to change my position later.
     
    #1 James_Newman, Aug 2, 2007
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    James, what does FWIW mean?
     
    #2 Amy.G, Aug 2, 2007
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    "for what it's worth..."
     
    #3 webdog, Aug 2, 2007
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I hope this is not another sin unto death thread. Give Brother Bob and DHK a breather! :D
     
    #4 webdog, Aug 2, 2007
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    gotcha :thumbs:
     
    #5 Amy.G, Aug 2, 2007
  6. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Sin unto death, you may be right. All I know is there seems to be a general consensus around here that there is something that is supposed to happen to someone who believes on Jesus that you can see outwardly and if that something is not there, then it's probably because they aren't saved. I'd like to be able to narrow that something down with scripture so I can make sure I'm saved. So far it looks like I may be lost, since James says that no fountain can yield both salt water and fresh, assuming God turns folks into freshwater fountains when they get saved, because sometimes I find myself pouring forth salt.
     
    #6 James_Newman, Aug 2, 2007
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    This passage is speaking about the tongue and what comes forth out of the mouth via the tongue. Does your mouth pour forth sweet water and bitter at the same time? Do you show forth the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit (by your mouth) at the same time.
    "For by thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

    The Scripture is not speaking about believers not being able to sin.
     
    #7 DHK, Aug 2, 2007
  8. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Well, I knew it was specifically speaking of sin from the lips. But what about the vine, can it put forth grapes one day and figs the next?
     
    #8 James_Newman, Aug 2, 2007
  9. bound

    bound New Member

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    I have read many of your posts and I honestly believe you are doing a great deal of worthwhile interior inquiry through them so please don't allow anything by me to detour you from further introspection. I too struggle and in fact believe very sincerely that we all "work out our salvation with fear and trembling".

    If truth be said, I don't believe that grace is without effect. If we know that the 'flesh is weak' we must also know that the 'Spirit is strong' but I would caution anyone who expects perfection in our obedience to our Lord and Saviour. Please don't assume that I say such to establish a license for sin because I honestly don't believe that sinful behavior is appropriate in believers but I question the perfection of all believers in their obedience to the Will of God. Does such imperfection exclude our salvific regeneration? I honestly don't know for just as you might struggle with passages in the Scriptures which suggestion in might I also, as I assume you do as well, find passages which continue to extend hope for us in our imperfection through a Lord and Saviour whom is Merciful and Compassionate toward those whom fear Him.

    I am eager to see this dialogue ponder this matter further as I am sure we all might find such very edifying.

    Grace and Peace.
     
    #9 bound, Aug 2, 2007
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I have to be honest, I'm not really trying to answer this question for myself as trying to start a discussion. I have strong opinions on the matter that few here would agree with. If you read through the A W Tozer thread that just got closed today, you would probably not want to talk to me. :)
    This is the problem that I have. Most anyone will admit that there is sufficient scripture to show that God doesn't want us to sin. There is sufficient scripture to show that (to whatever degree) we can get victory over sin in our lives. But Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. By grace are you saved through faith, not of works. I would expect that God's people are going to be comprised of all kinds of folks who still live like they did before they believed as well as folks who are converted and living for Christ, which I think is exactly what we see in the churches today. But some would say that it is impossible for a saved person to live the way they did before they were saved, pointing to James as proof that faith must produce works. My intention was to question whether or not the works that we hold up as 'evidence' that we are saved really match up with what the bible says our faith 'ought' to produce. What say ye?
     
    #10 James_Newman, Aug 2, 2007
  11. GLipscomb48

    GLipscomb48 New Member

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    Can a Christian sin?

    Paul says so. He referred to himself as 'chief of sinners.' And that was after his conversion!

    The question should be, 'Can a Christian remain in sin?'
     
    #11 GLipscomb48, Aug 2, 2007
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    . You are taking James analogy where James which not to take it (see v. 2).
     
    #12 TCGreek, Aug 2, 2007
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Don't guess you want me to comment?
    Just remember that which is born of God is the Spirit, and cannot sin.
    That which sins is the flesh.

    Hopefully, I can leave it there. I been in so many of these.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Aug 2, 2007
  14. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Didn't you know that James is the only book of the Bible? ;)
     
    #14 npetreley, Aug 2, 2007
  15. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Bro Bob, I agree with you. Yes, we actually agree on something!
     
    #15 J.D., Aug 2, 2007
  16. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    BroBob:

    You sure you want to leave the article "the" there before Spirit ?
     
    #16 pinoybaptist, Aug 2, 2007
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    ust remember that which is born of God, is the spirit, and cannot sin.

    Is that better.
     
    #17 Brother Bob, Aug 2, 2007
  18. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    yes, sir, thank you very much.
     
    #18 pinoybaptist, Aug 2, 2007
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Strong's

    1510
    eimi
    eimi
    i-mee'
    the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):--am, have been, X it is I, was.

    So it could read "I have been chief of sinners". or "I was chief of sinners".
     
    #19 Brother Bob, Aug 2, 2007
  20. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. I'm now learning that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    2. So what happened to the other books of the Bible?
     
    #20 TCGreek, Aug 2, 2007
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