Can a Dead Body Sin?

Billy Graham did not say 'you must be baptized in water and Jesus will save you'. He said pray to God and confess you are a sinner in need of Jesus and He will save you and take you to be with Him in heaven when you die.

I was unchurched and undiscipled. I knew nothing about any water baptism. It had nothing to do with any self confidence, i simply believed I was a sinner and called on Jesus like Graham said to.

Do you believe God heard me but said in His heart "you are too young for me to give you My Spirit, maybe later when you learn how to serve Me"?

I also said....

The doubts I have is on your theology. This is why I have questioned you with the example of my life. But you seem baffled to give clear answer.

What "new" baptism? No, I do not know that I will never commit adultery. I pray to God I will not stray from His side so far as to commit adultrey again in my life.

No, I am not asking for you to give me a :thumbs: that I am saved. I am seeking your understanding of salvation and using my own life as an example to evaluate.

In one post you say you don't know if I was saved at age ten. Then in another post you say I couldn't have been. I am just trying to understand what you truly believe. Here is what you said...

And then....

I still would like your thoughts on these questions....

"What would be your counsel to me in light of your view? I was never born-again at age ten? If I wasn't, then when? How do i know when regeneration has happened?"

You are a pastor, correct? Are you telling me that you cannot explain to people how they become born-again and how they can know they have been born-again? AND apply this to real life senarios?

God Bless!

 

You keep saying you doubt my theology. Then why bother with me?


If I had questions about my salvation, I believe I would be doing some "heavy" praying.

Do you know you are saved now? You keep asking when, but don't say you know now. When did you find out you were saved?
If you "know", then you must "know" when. You can't have complete knowledge, and not know "when". You are the one who should be telling me "when", not the other way around. I should tell you what you must do to be saved, of which I gave ample scripture on.

God Bless,


BBob,

 

I told you when. I gave testimony...

Is this not a debate forum? PLus you are a pastor, can't you assure followers of Jesus that they may absolutely know they have been born of God?

Yes, I gave testimony of this so I know I am saved. But according to your words one cannot be saved and commit adultery. But I know I am saved because of the Spirit witness spoken of in Romans and I did commit adultery. Are you saying that adultery cancels out Spirit testimony?

Either you can tell me that a person with my testimony was not saved at age ten, or eleven, or twelve, or eighteen, or twenty-two, even though the Spirit bear witness with spirit, or you surely can tell me some other way one could be sure they have been born-again if not by this testimony.

You are a pastor. You should be able to give any person an answer to such a testimony as mine.

You say "I don't know"?

And your a pastor?

Come on brother :jesus:

 

If you already know, when you were saved, then I have no right to question it. So press on to the prize of the mark of the high calling.

If however you are in trouble over it, I suggest you sit down with your Pastor. You seem to be questioning the Spirit of God, for if you know you are saved, you already know when.

I never question anyone's salvation. I do however have my beliefs and have always believed and preached that the young go to Heaven, because they never reached the age of accountability. You say, you reached it at age 10.
What you want me to do, deny that?

If you already know, then why on earth are you questioning me as to my knowledge of you. I see you are 44 years old, that should be beyond childhood.

You say you were saved at 10, I have no way of knowing. If I do not know, then I do not know. It seems to me you are the one who wants a person on this earth to convince you that you are right when scripture says it is the Spirit of God's job, to do so.

Let me give you a little shocker! I don't know when anyone was saved, with the exception of the Spirit bearing witness with my spirit that I am saved.

Try the Spirit of God, it works. That is the best advice you will ever receive. So, you think Pastors are miracle men, well go ask your own Pastor, when you were saved. It is when you accepted Christ, when you had the knowledge to know you were lost. There are some things that go with accepting Christ, you must acknowledge Him before the world, one way is baptism, of course you must believe He is the Christ and repent of your sins. As He told the woman, "go and sin no more".

I don't know,. I am sure you are not asking for help, but are trying to put down a Pastor. If anyone says they do know, I wouldn't believe them.

Your personal issues would better be resolved and handled by your local clergyman or a Christian counselor.

BBob,

 

This is your third or forth attempt to make this a "personal" issue of my own salvation. This is not the case and I have said so more than once.

This is about your teaching;

I am a living example of a truly born of God believer who has sinned the sin of adultery. I have first hand knowledge that would appear your teaching is incorrect. I have attempted to allow you an explannation, but you want to spin it into my own personal doubt, which I have none.

My point is that if you make a statement of a matter of fact then you ought to be able to make it apply to the believer's personal experiences with God and have it make sense. You should have life application to offer to God's flock.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

You have first hand knowledge and ask another "when was I saved",, that is pure foolishness. I can only give you scripture.

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I am sure you knew you were sinning when you engaged in the act of adultery. Now were you a child of God, when you wilfully sinned, only you and God knows that.

Yes, you are a living example alright, if of a born again child of God???? What you tell me, is all I have to go on. Is it the truth, who knows.

1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 6:20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So, you are saying you used God's body to commit fornication.

Serious business, you better have it right!!

BBob,

 

Not exactly what I asked. Besides, you already answered with Romans 8:16. That would make the answer "saved at age ten".

At the time I knew I was sinning for having sex out of wedlock. I believed from what I had heard from TV preachers I was going against God's word. Besides that, the Holy Spirit within me shook me quite voilently to abstain but I gave in to my lust.

I didn't realize I was committing adultery nor believed I was until some time afterwards when I read in scripture that Jesus said if you marry another man's wife (she was divorced, but nonetheless) you are an adulterer. So this is the adultery I was giulty of.

Yes, I was indeed a child of God when I sinned this sin. I believe if you study Hebrews 10 in depth you will find the author is continuing with his hypotheticals as he did in chapter 6 to drive home his point about living as you ought in Christ Jesus and not as the lost. Just a thought.

Yes, I did. I believe God has forgave me.

Is this true? Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

God Bless!

 

I feel compelled to weigh in in the debate over sin in a born again believer. If I am reading this correctly I am seeing the following being taught:

1. A born again believer cannot break the ten commandments and still go to heaven.

Brother Bob: "I don't believe a truly born of God person can fall, and
to break the commandments, would be to fall."

2. A born again believer will not break one of the ten commandments.

Brother Bob: "I know, I will never commit adultery. Do you know that
now after the new baptism??"
"I do believe in keep the Ten Commandments. I do not believe a

man can be with his neighbor's wife and be saved at the same time."

3. A born again believer cannot choose to sin when they know it is wrong and still go to heaven.

Brother Bob:
"He (Jesus)also said, if we sin willing, we shall not inherit the Kingdom."

Yes, you are a living example alright, if of a born again child of God???? What you tell me, is all I have to go on. Is it the truth, who knows.

HP: "God has simply not so designed the assurance of ones eternal salvation to be irrevocable or fixed when walking in open disobedience and rebellion against a known commandment of God."

4. The willful sinning that is being talked about in Hebrews 10:26 is all sins that we know to be wrong.

Brother Bob: Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have
received the knowledge
of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I am sure you knew you were sinning when you engaged in the act of
adultery. Now were you a child of God, when you wilfully sinned, only
you and God knows that."

Please feel free to clarify if I have misunderstood anything.

 

Seems to be about what scripture says.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

I do not believe the blood of Christ is a ticket to sin and get away with it. If so, John the Baptist should of told the King to get saved, then it would be ok to have his brother's Phillip's wife.

Too many people commit such sins and say, well I was already saved, so it will be alright. I would rather accept HP's belief than to believe a person could tramp on the blood of Christ.


BBob,

 

If you believe God has forgiven you, then you don't need me. Its entirely between you and God. How could you know you were committing adultery, but then again, you say that you didn't know until later in life. Don't make sense.

BBob,

 

Not to try and speak for Steaver, but he isn't necessarily contradicting himself. Not being clear perhaps, but possibly being consistent. If you cared enough to take notice you will see that he says he knew he was sinning by having sex out of wedlock. I think that is very typical for unbelievers. He then stated that he did not know that he was committing adultery when he was reading scripture, and I assume the Law. These are two very distinct ways that we are condemned and I know HP is a strong advocate of seeing things this way.

Scripture makes it clear that the Law brings condemnation to those breaking it and the Gentiles, Steaver being one of them, are a law unto themselves when they sin against what they know to be right.

 

I believe that He said he did know he was committing adultery at age 23.

and

Then he changes to not knowing until later.

His question to me, is to tell him "when" he was saved. My question is, how can anyone tell another person, Pastor or not, when they were saved. It is the Spirit of God that bears witness that you are saved, not your Pastor. He is a man just as anyone else.

The Pastor has to lean upon the Holy Spirit to bear witness to him, that he is saved. The Holy Spirit does not witness to me, when everyone is saved. I have not experienced this ever.

If someone came to me and said, I am not sure I am saved. I would tell them to pray on.

 

In hindsight i come to understand the fornication I was committing was called adultery. Thus I said "adultery" when I gave testimony. At the time I committed the act I did not see it as adultery but I knew sex outside of marriage was wrong as well. I seen her as committing adultery because she was married. I was not. Just how ignorant minds work. I was unchurched and undiscipled in scripture. Kinda dumb now that I think about how I viewed adultery as unacceptable for me but thought that sex outside of marriage somehow wasn't hurting anyone but me!

I use to view these sins in this way. I felt that as long as I was not hurting someone else, you know the do unto others as you would have done unto you command, it was not really that bad. If I hurt myself that is my problem. Again understand, I had a distorted and stupid view of things. I was unlearned in scripture and had developed some twisted justifications for my actions. It was only by the grace of God which sent two brothers to visit me and challenge me to read the scriptures causing me to abandoned these foolish thoughts. Thank God for witnessing!

So when I said "He pleaded with me not to commit adultery and I resisted His counsel and gave in to my lust" I was defining it for what it was, not that I knew at the time the definition of the kind of fornication I was committing.

Sorry if this confused some readers. Forgive me and God Bless!

:jesus:

 

My apologies HP. raying: you forgive my poor communication.

God Bless!

 

Did you know it was adultery to even lust after another woman in your heart if you were married? Did you know that marrying a divorced woman was committing adultery? Did you know these things BEFORE Jesus said so?

I didn't. I had to read them first. I was ignorant to these teachings. I thought adultery only consisted of a married person having sex with another besides their spouse.

raying:

 

Brother Bob, you keep telling the list and me that you cannot tell anybody when they were saved. But then you do tell me and everybody when they were saved. It is the Spirit of God that bears witness that you are saved.

Again i thank you for telling me how I or anybody can know they are saved. As I reflect back on my life I can say with all assurance the Spirit has beared witness with my spirit that I am a child of God since age ten.

Thank You! :jesus:

 

Ok Steaver, but it was the Holy Spirit that told you, not me. I only told you how anyone finds out they are saved. I still don't know when you were saved, that is between you and God.

Peace to you and may God bless you on your journey.

BBob,