Can A "good" Muslim be a good American?

[amity]

The term "the Great Satan" has been used by Saddam Hussein, and all of Iraq, the leader of Iran, and all of Iran, most of the Muslim clerics of Pakistan, and the greater population of Pakistan, and I would thus venture to guess a few other Islam nations as well. I can at least document the above three nations--Pakistan being the second largest Islamic nation in the world.

Well, I guss if most Americans were convinced that the Japanese were "devils" in WWII, then it is possible. You are talking about countries I know very little about, really. But watch and pray, those leaders too shall pass.

 

[DHK]

I hate to tell you this, but the history of Christianity is no different in most instances. It was a very bloody business.

You have no idea what the history of Christianity is. I don't think you know what real Christianity is.
FYI, Mohammed married Aisha at the age of six, and then "raped" her at the age of niine.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

No, no, YOU are the ones making the accusation. YOU supply the proof that a majority of Muslims feel this way. And from a credible source, please. Any opinion polls, for example?

It does not get any more credible than Dr. Caner

 

[amity]

You have no idea what the history of Christianity is. I don't think you know what real Christianity is.
FYI, Mohammed married Aisha at the age of six, and then "raped" her at the age of niine.

Source please?

 

[webdog]

The term "the Great Satan" has been used by Saddam Hussein, and all of Iraq, the leader of Iran, and all of Iran, most of the Muslim clerics of Pakistan, and the greater population of Pakistan, and I would thus venture to guess a few other Islam nations as well. I can at least document the above three nations--Pakistan being the second largest Islamic nation in the world.

My statment was directed to amity, DHK. It was tongue-in-cheek.

 

[amity]

You have no idea what the history of Christianity is. I don't think you know what real Christianity is.
FYI, Mohammed married Aisha at the age of six, and then "raped" her at the age of niine.

Source on his "rape" of Aisha, please?

Here is what I mean about Christian conquest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization

Yes, Christianization was frequently a very bloody process, sadly. No doubt we could easily say "well, those weren't true Christians" but then we can say the same about Muslim history. In Islam conversion by force is specifically prohibited.

 

[DHK]

Source on his "rape" of Aisha, please?

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm

 

[amity]

It does not get any more credible than Dr. Caner

Never heard of him. What is his source for his statement that all Muslims see America as the "Great Satan"?

 

[DHK]

Here is what I mean about Christian conquest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization

Yes, Christianization was frequently a very bloody process, sadly. No doubt we could easily say "well, those weren't true Christians" but then we can say the same about Muslim history. In Islam conversion by force is specifically prohibited.

As I said, you know little of Christian history.
First and foremost, Catholicism is not a Christian religion; it never was.
Secondly, Constantine was not a Christian, and neither were the crusades that he led. The history that you point to had nothing to do with Christianity. True Christianity stood against everything that you are pointing toward.

 

[AF Guy N Paradise]

Source on his "rape" of Aisha, please?

Here is what I mean about Christian conquest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization

Yes, Christianization was frequently a very bloody process, sadly. No doubt we could easily say "well, those weren't true Christians" but then we can say the same about Muslim history. In Islam conversion by force is specifically prohibited.

You must be listening to ROsie O'Donnell?

 

[amity]

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm

You know, this source is seemingly not so bad.

But it does not say what you say it said. It nowhere says that he "raped" Aisha at the age of 9. I haven't read the entire thing word for word, but it seems to maintain clear neutrality on the age at which the marriage was consummated, and nowhere does it suggest that he "raped" her at any age. So that remains an ugly, groundless assertion.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Never heard of him. What is his source for his statement that all Muslims see America as the "Great Satan"?

He is by birth a Turk. He grew up as a turkish muslim in Turkey. He converted to christianity at 18. He understand the Koran better than anyone on this board. He was disowned for his conversion by his Father as an act of mercy so he would not be killed for his conversion. He could certainly school you an quite a few things.

 

[amity]

You must be listening to ROsie O'Donnell?

I don't know who Rosie O'Donell is. That is a Wikipedia article. If you can match the scholarship, please add to it. Be sure to follow the links to get a clearer picture. Especially on what happened in Mexico.

 

[DHK]

You know, this source is seemingly not so bad.

But it does not say what you say it said. It nowhere says that he "raped" Aisha at the age of 9. I haven't read the entire thing word for word, but it seems to maintain clear neutrality on the age at which the marriage was consummated, and nowhere does it suggest that he "raped" her at any age. So that remains an ugly, groundless assertion.

Any child that is married at the age of six does not do so at her own free will. It is of someone elses will. If she had sex just a little after that it certainly wasn't consensual. It was forced upon her. The article may not use rape. It doesn't have to. All the time he was molesting her she was looking out the door wishing she could be playing with her friends. I call that rape.

 

[amity]

He is by birth a Turk. He grew up as a turkish muslim in Turkey. He converted to christianity at 18. He understand the Koran better than anyone on this board. He was disowned for his conversion by his Father as an act of mercy so he would not be killed for his conversion. He could certainly school you an quite a few things.

So, for the umpteenth time, WHAT IS THE SOURCE?

 

[webdog]

I don't know who Rosie O'Donell is.

Be very thankful for this

 

[amity]

Any child that is married at the age of six does not do so at her own free will. It is of someone elses will. If she had sex just a little after that it certainly wasn't consensual. It was forced upon her. The article may not use rape. It doesn't have to. All the time he was molesting her she was looking out the door wishing she could be playing with her friends. I call that rape.

Where on earth did this come from?

Yes, the marriage took place at the age of 6, and was consummated some time between the ages of 9 and 12. No one knows for sure exactly when. Need I remind you that Mary (though still a virgin) was betrothed through an arranged marriage, likely at about that same age? She was around 12 when she gave birth to Christ! And that was the usual age for marriage in those days. When are girl reached menarche, the marriage was consummated. It was contracted much earlier ... called a "betrothal" in English.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

So, for the umpteenth time, WHAT IS THE SOURCE?

Check out the links for the umpteenth time.

 

[JamieinNH]

First of all, my comments were directly towards reformedbeliver, but at any rate..

I haven't seen any moderators here speak volumes of hate or fear either one.

I am sorry to say, I believe you have blinders on then. This thread and another one like it were I reported it has been filled with both. If you can't see it, then so be it, but as I see it, it's hate and fear plain and simple.

You guys need to learn to trust in God more.

Just the truth.

Truth according to who? Are any of your guys expert in this field? Have you been to school or are you a scholar in this? Or do you just know what you read. What other people's opinions are?

The truth is sometimes clouded by fear and painc.

If you must make digs, dig for the truth.

No digs at all, just my opinion of this thread and others like it. The BB these days have been filled with one thread after the other talking about muslims and the hate and fear of them.

There have been people looking to kill Christians for a long time. Even AFTER we win this "war on terror" (I don't believe in the war on terror anymore than I believ in the war of drugs or any other cool marketing name they want to call it) But even after we 'win' they will always be someone wanting us dead. It's a fact of life. We are to trust in God for ALL things. How much does it show us that we trust in him when we are running around posting nothing but "fear" threads one after the other?

Should we protect ourselves? Yes. How are we doing on our borders these days? Should the USA defend itself? Yes. Should we capture and have a trial of the people responsible for 9-11? Yes. But should we keep harping on it and posting fear and hating anyone that is a muslim? No. We are to love our emenies. I know it's hard and I am not saying I would get it right if I have confronted with a situtation, but I am not going to painc and create a sense of fear like these type of threads do. That's NOT what a Christian should do.

One question for all you that think Muslims and people of Islam aren't worth trying to save. Where did Jesus teach us this? Did Jesus teach us to love them or hate them? If you say love them, where is the love in this thread of any of the many others on this board?

Jamie

 

[bound]

He is by birth a Turk. He grew up as a turkish muslim in Turkey. He converted to christianity at 18. He understand the Koran better than anyone on this board. He was disowned for his conversion by his Father as an act of mercy so he would not be killed for his conversion. He could certainly school you an quite a few things.

The fact that he converted at such a young age would suggest that this young Turk never received a higher education and thus no formal study of Al-Qur'an. I'm not sure I would be too confident that this individual has the background to be authoritative when speaking of Al-Qur'an. Perhaps you mean that this young man is a good source of popular sentiment in his native culture?