Can a Sinful Man go to Hell on His Own?

The problem here is with the definition of 'dead'. A dead man is a man separated. If you are physically dead, you are separated from your body. Your body may be discarded and rotting, but you go on. If you are spiritually dead, you are separated from God. You are not spiritually rotting or unconscious.

A man goes to hell not for sinning, according to the Bible, but for refusing to believe in Christ as Savior and Redeemer and God Himself. This is not only explicitely stated in John 3:16-21, but by Jesus Himself when talking to the Jews in John 8:23-25:

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be] [note: the Greek here is the double 'I am' -- ego eimi -- translated I am I am], you will indeed die in your sins."
"Who are you?" they asked.
"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied.

In other words, an unbeliever dies IN his sins, but is not condemned BECAUSE of them. What he is condemned for is unbelief:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

If you cross reference this with Romans 1, you will see that God's anger is being poured out on those who SUPPRESS the truth. In other words, it is what you do with the truth that you are presented with which will make all the difference in the long run. If you live by the truth that you know, God the Father will lead you to the Son, and you can either accept or reject Him. If you prefer the lie, then that is what you will get, and with it the consequence of that lie: condemnation.

 

I presume your preacher is talking about spiritually dead men. If that is the case, there is a definite problem with some Bible passages. In Isaiah 1, for instance, starting at verse 18, we see the Lord Himself saying:

"Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord.
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow;
though they are red as crimson, they shall be ilke wool.
If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land;
but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword."
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

Is this being addressed to those who are spiritually dead? If not, then why is the Lord saying what He is saying about the consequences of 'if you are willing and obedient' or not?

Go to the book of Hebrews in the New Testament. In chapters 3 and 4, we find repeated several times the plea, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." That means their hearts are not yet hard. But these are clearly not saved people he is writing to! And that means they can hear, can choose, and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the subject of all the chapters in this book.

There are many more passages indicating the same sort of thing. But I hope that helps a little.

 

God sovereignly chooses to "Draw ALL mankind to Himself" so the sinner that "goes to hell anyway" must "say no to the drawing of God" to get there.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I don't find that in the Bible, Bob. What I find is that all men are invited, but only those who want the truth are drawn to Christ.

 

I don't see the significant difference between drawn and invited as it pertains to salvation.

The Bible says that no man can come to Christ unless drawn. How can someone be invited, then, without being drawn first?

John 12:32 does imply that all mankind are drawn.

 

#2 by Helen is excellent. Period.

I'm having some problems sorting out post #5, #6, and #7.

Standing by!!!

 

...as am I

 

Maybe it's just me...

When I invite someone, there is sort of an implication of distance involved. You are invited to join me at....for....etc. etc. The person is invited to come, and a yes or no response is equally valid and acceptable.

I see Matthew 11:26 as an invitation: "Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you wil find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

When I think of 'drawn', I think more of something like a magnet, something a little more compelling. In John 12:32, Jesus is talking and [in context] says "Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

Now, I just asked my husband to see how he is thinking about this and he checked the word used in the Greek. The word for 'draw' in that verse is different from the word translated 'draw' in some other verses. It is Strongs #1670 helko, or helkuo. It is from a root meaning to prefer or choose. Thus, on the cross, Christ is choosing all men for Himself, making it possible for ALL men to come to Him, just as Hebrews says, tasting death for all.

Thus the meaning, at least in the Greek, is not that all men are actually drawn to Christ as we think of the verb now, but it is part of the explanation that all men are covered by the atonement of Christ's sacrifice. Thus the choice would then be available for each and every man who ever lived regarding the truth and acceptance of either God's Promise (before the Cross) or the Fulfilled Promise, Christ Jesus, after the Cross.

 

HP, the only thing I would be hesitant about agreeing with you here, and it may be simply a matter of semantics, is that I don't think any of us can obey Christ without being empowered by the Holy Spirit. The most any man can do is WANT to obey. Although we can see clearly that unsaved men can obey laws to some extent, at least outwardly, God's law, which shows us what sin is, is impossible for any of us to fulfill, saved or not! Only Christ could do that!

But in Christ, and when we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we are put on the path to spiritual maturity whereby we learn to obey and slowly but surely become transformed to the image of our Lord.

In short, although a man can respond to the truth, and to God, with a want, a desire, we are essentially pretty helpless creatures when it comes to following through on anything good. That takes Christ in us.

The concept of free will is simply will, not action. I am free to want. I am not therefore empowered to fulfill that want!

Does that make sense?

 

One MUST prayerfully, spiritually evaluate every God-breathed word. Just a comment in passing as I go do something else for a while.

:wavey:

 

HP, since you had your mind made up, why did you ask the questions?

Never mind. We are leaving now to take our granddaughter out for her birthday dinner and a new outfit.

Take care.

 

I've never seen a dead man do anything but lay there, they are slaves to their situation, unable to make decisions.
Man sins well enough all on his own, with anyones help, all men sin, so man on his own is a slave to sin, dead in his sin.
I think of the dead dry bones in Isaiah, did they choose to come alive, did they have any say in it whatsoever?