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Can Armenianism Deter People From Christ?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by mnw, May 13, 2006.

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  1. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    One a strongly Calvinistic site I read this paragraph:

    Those who hold to and preach the deviant theological systems known as Arminianism and Pelagianism will not help people find Christ. They deter people from the Christ of the Bible because those who follow such doctrines do become twice sons of hell as those that propagate the doctrines.

    Now, if salvation be a matter entirely of election, then what can any of us, calvinist/armenianist, do to hinder or help?

    I am not looking to pick a fight but genuinely want to see how calvinists balance this.
     
    #1 mnw, May 13, 2006
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Nothing can deter / hinder the sovereign will of God.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #2 Joseph_Botwinick, May 13, 2006
  3. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Amen Joseph.

    (what does a person's nationality have to do with God saving them ;) :D )
     
    #3 PastorSBC1303, May 13, 2006
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    :confused:

    Pastor,

    You lost me. What are you talking about?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #4 Joseph_Botwinick, May 13, 2006
  5. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Jospeh, [​IMG] read the title of the thread really close.
     
    #5 PastorSBC1303, May 13, 2006
  6. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    Whoops. Sorry guys
     
    #6 mnw, May 13, 2006
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Now I get it. [​IMG]
     
    #7 Joseph_Botwinick, May 13, 2006
  8. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    mnw no problem I'm just picking. I think everyone knows what you are talking about [​IMG]
     
    #8 PastorSBC1303, May 13, 2006
  9. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    As an Armenian, I am offended that one would think my people could deter someone from Christ!!! :mad:
     
    #9 StefanM, May 13, 2006
  10. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Can Armenianism Deter People From Christ?

    As opposed to Azerbaijanianism, for instance?
     
    #10 Ransom, May 13, 2006
  11. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    Armenians, forgive me.

    Arminians, join in. [​IMG]
     
    #11 mnw, May 13, 2006
  12. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    This kind of rhetoric is unfortunate, IMO. There ought to be room in the SBC for all of us.
     
    #12 whatever, May 13, 2006
  13. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    Help, Moderators, please correct the spelling of the title of my thread... please...

    [​IMG]
     
    #13 mnw, May 13, 2006
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Hey guys,

    She made a spelling mistake. Let's get over it, show some grace, and discuss the topic. [​IMG]

    I'll start:

    Nothing can deter / hinder the sovereign will of God.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #14 Joseph_Botwinick, May 13, 2006
  15. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    Anyway, the paragraph was taken from this site:

    http://www.apuritansmind.com/Arminianism/Arminianism.htm

    I enjoy the site, most of it anyway. I have a series of 25 books called the Puritan Paperbacks.

    The whole arminian/calvinism discussion often revolves around extremes.

    The arminians say the end result of the calvinist theology is a complete robotic and mindless creation. The calvinists accuse the arminianists of over ruling God and making salvation a matter of works.

    What struck me with the original paragraph is the animosity against arminians. He pretty much says people will go to Hell because of Arminians. But then his whole precept is that salvation is all of God.

    Is this a common paradox of calvinistic thinking or would most calvninists, like most so-called Arminians, not go to such extremes?
     
    #15 mnw, May 13, 2006
  16. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    "She?" Joseph, I hope that was a demonstration of your sense of humor...
     
    #16 mnw, May 13, 2006
  17. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    This is exactly why this debate will never end this side of heaven.

    No one completely understands the mystery of God's grace in salvation.
     
    #17 PastorSBC1303, May 13, 2006
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    My apologies. For some reason which I have absolutely nor justification for, I assume you were a female. Please forgive me and show me some grace too. [​IMG]

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #18 Joseph_Botwinick, May 13, 2006
  19. mnw

    mnw New Member

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    This thread has not gone well for me... :(

    No problem Joseph.
     
    #19 mnw, May 13, 2006
  20. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    JB, Theology is the only time I ever get to refer to my ethnicity, so I take every opportunity! I was just joking, anyway.

    But on the topic...

    I do not think that a Calvinist could properly make the statement because it would conflict with Calvinistic soteriology, namely, that election is unconditional, dependent only on the sovereign will of God.

    Now, if the statement were reversed, it would not necessarily conflict with Arminian soteriology, but it would be inappropriate (and flat-out wrong), IMO.

    In my personal view, such extreme Calvinism does not do anything to edify.
     
    #20 StefanM, May 13, 2006
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