Can God lift a rock. . .

Ah, the old Armenian/Calvinism debate.

To quote robycop on the other thread:

 

Actually, this isn't a stupid question. What you're really asking is, what is omnipotence? Does it mean God can literally do anything? Or does it mean God can do anything that is logically possible? If it means the latter, then aren't we subjecting God to our human rules of logic? Descartes would argue the former, because he would say God can simply change the rules of logic to anything he wants. I think the rules of logic are derived from God's nature, so he can only do things that are logically possible. Thus, no, God cannot make a rock he cannot lift.

 

Yes, actually, He can.

The definition of "lift" is to move an object upwards. But consider the definition of "up". If you went down far enough, you'd pass through the center of the Earth and then you'd be going up. Up means away from the local center of gravity. Once a rock gets heavy enough it wouldn't move with reference to the local center of gravity, it would BE the local center of gravity. Hence, although God could move it however He wanted, none of those movements would be lifting, because of the definition of the word.

 

I like these questions. As a former teacher I know there are no stupid questions if you don't know the answer. These questions without clear, obvious answers can make you think and then understand concepts you didn't understand before. It's a classic illogical question and learning that is worth it.

 

Armitage, the rock doesn't have to pass through the center of the earther. For instance, if its base is sitting on the western hemisphere, and God then enlarged it so it became infinitely high and wide, then he would have a coordinate from which to lift it. You didn't answer the question, you redefined it. Try this one: Can God create a rock too big for him to move?
If he creates a rock with infinite mass, then an infinite amount of force would be required to accelerate it, as seen by F=ma. Can God get the mass so high, that not even he can provide enough force to give the rock a non-zero acceleration?

 

Too big to move with reference to what? Everything else in the universe? But if the rock and everything else move further apart (or closer, or whatever), it's just a matter of perspective whether the rock is moving or everything else is. And if God says it's the rock that's moving, who's going to argue? So the answer is no.

And, of course, God can supply infinite force,or else redefine the laws of momentum.

 

Here's a response to this:

 

</font>[/QUOTE]I did not realize that the Armenians were debating Calvinism!

Where does Scripture teach we have libertine free will?