Can God originate a thought?

I'm not reading anything into it, I am accepting God's statement as literal. You are the one who is arguing it is figurative, but that does not agree with the context, which is literal.

I know of only three verses that say God knows all things, and taken in context may not be speaking of all things that take place.

I do not find your arguments convincing, you simply say you are correct. You rarely post scripture as I do to support your views. You do quote Calvinists, trust me, I already know what a Calvinist will say, you all parrot each other.

Who said he is bound in time? Not me.

I disagree with this.

You presume that God knows everything and then explain away scripture which suggests in some instances he doesn't.

 

It doesn't say God doesn't know, so you are reading that he doesn't know into the text. You are making an assumption until you can quote where God said He didn't know.

good, I thought you had said that...

and...

Well good, so what are you arguing about then if God knows all including the future.

Because the Scriptures teach that God knows everything.

Acts 15:18
Known to God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Psalm 44:21b "he knows the secrets of the heart."

John 21:17
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.

Jesus asked, but already knew the answer.

1 John 3:19-20
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Job 36:17 "Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?"

Psalm 147:5 "Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite."

 

He said he WILL know, which shows he didn't know yet. Give it up, you are wrong and you know it.

I said this shows him in time, but I never said he was bound in time. You like to read into what people actually say.

And sometimes they say he doesn't.

His works. It doesn't say he knows all our works.

He is speaking of what he will do, not what we do.

Yes, but it almost always says after he searches.

I actually agree with you here, but it was Peter who said this, not the Lord.

I will answer the rest later.

 

more assumptions...

Ok...

Still avoiding that God knows everything as the Bible teaches. You are wrong until you can supply a place that says the Lord didn't know something. Assuming He doesn't isn't ample evidence.

 

I need to go to bed, that is why I said I will answer the rest later, but it is you that inserts your assumptions into scripture. For instance, when Peter said the Lord knows everything, what is the context? Jesus was asking if Peter loved him, he was not asking Peter if he was omniscient. In fact, Jesus had told Peter and the other disciples he did not know the exact day or hour he would return, but only his Father, so Peter knew there was one thing Jesus didn't know. But you assume Peter is speaking of omniscience.

And not too cool to leave off Psa 44:21a where it says, "Shall not God SEARCH this out?"As I have said many times before, you Calvinists believe people are stupid, but all you do is show dishonesty here.

 

Ok, that's enough from you Mr. Open theist. You can't seem to have a normal conversation without resorting to name calling. I gave you plenty of examples of the Bible saying that God knows everything, yet you want to assume(while denying it) that God doesn't know something even though the Bible says He does. I'm not assuming anything. I gave plenty of passages that DIRECTLY say that God knows everything. You give passages that do not say that He doesn't know something. You assume because He asks that He doesn't. That's an assumption on your part. Obviously you have no argument against me so you have resorted to name calling and erroneous claims of my dishonesty.

"Shall not God SEARCH this out,he knows the secrets of the heart"

There, you happy now? It still shows that you are incorrect that God doesn't know everything. He is searching, yet it says the knows the secrets of the heart.

Come back when you can bring a decent argument to the table. The name calling will not be tolerated. Erroneous claims of dishonesty will not be tolerated. I'm just shocked that a baptist would believe that God doesn't have all knowledge. What kind of weak god is that, that doesn't even know the future. (of course you will say that he does, but then argue that he doesn't...)

 

You tell me...

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

I know you will revert back to the "this is the human side of Christ", but in the same way you cannot separate the Trinity away from God, you cannot separate Christ away from God. Why can't you just accept the mystery aspect of this without needing it all pre-packaged into a nice little theological box? Fact: God is omniscient. Fact: There is a tension in Scripture with God reacting to man within time. Just accept it and worry about the logistics when you get to Heaven.

 

Ok, so God is omniscient. You say that's a fact. Very good. What winman is doing is assuming because God asks a question that He doesn't know the answer. He is taking the language too literal with assumptions which contradicts the fact that God is omniscient.

As far as Jesus Christ, I have given ample evidence to support my claim. Jesus was completely God and completely Man, but there were aspects of his deity that he "sat aside." For instance, Jesus walked around from place to place, which God is omnipresent. Jesus died, but God is eternal and cannot die. So there are times that Jesus "limits" his omniscience while here on earth. To use that to prove that God isn't omniscience isn't valid any more than me trying to prove that God isn't eternal because Jesus died.

And I'm not looking to put it any "neat box." All I'm doing is accepting Scripture for what it says without assuming things that contradicts Scripture. Sure, there are places where God deals with man in time because man is in time, but that doesn't mean that God is bound to time. And of course that doesn't mean that God isn't omniscient. What is being said is when God says that he now "sees" what Abraham will do, it means that He didn't know. Well that's not true. God did know, just that Abraham hadn't proven himself yet.

Wimnam keeps trying to make this into a Calvinism thing. I have never seen anybody so obsessed with Calvinism. This has nothing to do with Calvinism.

 

You will not give a straight answer. Do you deny that God has always known all there has ever been to ever know about everything?

Why can't you just say, "yes"?

When you admit that you do not believe in the omniscience of God, we can move on.

As long as you maintain, what seems to me to be, a cowardly ambiguity we are stuck.

Just answer the question.

 

And you STILL avoid the question!

Do you believe that God has always known all there is ever to know about everything or NOT??????

 

I have answered that in no uncertain terms.

Nothing can exist without God. That ought to be simple enough for a small child to grasp.

God is the ULTIMATE or REMOTE cause of evil.

Now, your turn.

 

So you still lack the courage of your convictions to just ADMIT that you do not believe in the omniscience of God.

Just have the guts to say you do not believe God is as big as orthodox Christianity has believed for nearly two thousand years.

Why don't you have the courage to accept your appropriate label?


See folks, Skandelon is a thinker. He knows God CANNOT be BIG and Calvinism NOT be true.

He is right. In order for God to be TRULY all-knowing, Calvinism MUST be true. He knows this. Some of the independents and adherents to this new nameless theology which are not the thinkers that Skandelon is do not know this. But Skandelon does.

So, what is Skandelon's only option as a non-Calvinist thinker??

He does what all other non-cal INTELLIGENT people have done. He SHRINKS God.

God MUST be smaller if Calvinism is to be untrue. He CANNOT be omniscient and Calvinism NOT be true.

 

What What.....Are you talking to the "Folks" out there now like Van d Man now?!? Dont do that, please dont do that!

 

Seems to me like if you say God cannot originate a thought, you are limiting God.

 

This Is Not My Original Thought

Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?

 

Hey Rip & Robert.....see thats a key component in this whole megilla. We Calvinists believe in Gods total & complete Sovereignty....I cant stress that more.

 

Or in other words... we believe that God is ACTUALLY God.