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Can I Know I'm Going to Heaven When I Die?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by InTheLight, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    To answer your question directly, yes.

    Whether all "Calvinists" believe you can know or not, I cannot say. I have found that folks with reformed views (I am one) ususally hold to the "perseverence of the saints". Perseverence unto death is a sign of true salvation.

    I believe I read once that some Puritans considered it presumptuous to declare yourself to be "saved" or "heaven bound". Instead, they preferred to say "hopefully saved" or some such thing, believing "perseverence" unto death meant just that. That is, all true believers would persevere until they died, therefore, until you died, you couldn't claim to have persevered unto death.

    Maybe that is what your pastor was referring to.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    (remember, I'm Calvinist) ;)

    Of course God can do whatever He wants but He cannot reneg on a promise. He can't go back on His word. If He says He will do something, He will not decide to not do it - He doesn't lie. So the Word says that we can have eternal life when we believe on Him. That's it. He doesn't make us a new creation and then change us back to the old. So God can do whatever He wants to do within His character.
     
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Well I did a google on "go to heaven" and go to heaven when I die" and clicked through only the first ten pages of each that came up and there wasn't a scriptural reference on any of the 100 search sites.

    Same on "enter the kingdom of God" and 95 - 98 came up with either a scripture I recognized or a scriptural reference.

    Why do we use the term go to heaven or go to heaven when I die?
     
  4. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    If You Called Upon HIM, You Can Trust . . .

    . . . That your feet are on the "Rock", and your name is on the "Roll!" Any doubt you have is natural. I don't know too many believers who don't, at one time or another has that doubt. It takes extra-ordinary faith to be totally unshakeable in that area.

    I know that I'm His. I know I've been adopted through my confession of my sin; His death for my sin; His victory of death; and I can't believe that my loving Father would ever let an adopted child go back into the hands of the enemy.

    I am His forever, and a day because Jesus died to make that happen. Sure I have those flesh moments. Kind of like a senior moment, but that doesn't change what He did for me and any person who has come by faith, accepted His gift, and trusted in Him to take us up when this life is over! :applause:

    Shalom,

    pastor Paul :type:
     
  5. calvin

    calvin New Member

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    Hi Annsni. i would agree whole heartedly that God does not reneg on his promises. but, we can reneg on ours. and i think the bible makes it very clear, that people can, and do fall away. take Hebrews 6 for example. also the proverbs, "a dog returns to its own vomit." lets not forget that if a person escapes the entanglements of this world, only to be caught up in them again, he/she, is worse off than in the beginning. personally, i think the teaching of eternal security, is dangerous and unbiblical. none of the apostles seemed to teach it. peace to you. :wavey:
     
  6. Tater77

    Tater77 New Member

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    I believe the Gospel with absolute Faith, confessed Christ as Lord that he shed His blood on the cross for forgiveness of my sins and died and rose again on the 3rd day.

    I see the Fruit of the Spirit in all aspects of my life.

    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version, ©2010)

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. ​

    And I also see these qualities.

    2 Peter 1:5-8 (New International Version, ©2010)

    5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. ​

    Having seen these qualities within myself, feeling and seeing the power of God in my life and the effect it has on those around me. I am assured without doubt by this.

    Romans 8:38-39 (New International Version, ©2010)

    38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ​

    So yes, I have absolute assurance with the faith of a child that I am going to Heaven. If my words and this Scripture isn't enough, then I don't know what to say.
     
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Calvin let me ask you a question about falling away. What exactly is necessary for a person to fall away (lose, forfeit, give up their salvation)? In other words give me some senerio thta would be an example of someone falling away (losing salvation). Second question. Can they return and be saved a second time or third or fourth or what ever?
     
  8. mets65

    mets65 New Member

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    John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

    John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

    John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
     
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Can you show me a verse that says a new creation reverts back to the old creation? That we can erase our name from God's hand? I don't see that idea supported in Scripture.
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Additionally, will we stand before the throne and say "I stuck it out!! You have to let me in now!"?? That is salvation based on what we do. I'm sorry but if it depends on me, I'm hell-bound.
     
  11. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Amen! :thumbsup:
     
  12. mets65

    mets65 New Member

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    It doesn't depend on your works, just your heart.
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it depends on my heart. Did I change my heart or did God?
     
  14. mets65

    mets65 New Member

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    God worked in you and by his work in you, you chose him. This is possible because created you with this ability to do so.
     
  15. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Right, God worked in me and by His work (which I see the Bible saying as giving me a new heart, making me a new creation), I am now His. Now, how do I go back to taking my old heart back or how do I go about making myself the old creation again?
     
  16. calvin

    calvin New Member

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    Happy to my friend. 2nd peter 2:20-22 is quite clear that this is possible. we also have hebrews 6:4-6. i will answer some of the other posters here to to save space. the book of James, clearly teaches that it is a cooperative effort between God and man, in the area of salvation. Paul in colossians 1:24, clearly teaches that salvation is not a one time event, but an ongoing process. " Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and FILL UP THOSE THINGS THAT ARE WANTING OF THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, IN MY FLESH, FOR HIS BODY, WHICH IS THE CHURCH. not trying to sound angry, just wanted to emphasies this part of the verse. how much sin does it take? well, it is written that his Spirit will not contend with flesh forever, does it not? i can find many more verses if anyone would like. we can also talk about it from a philisophical viewpoint. no where in the bible does it teach eternal security. we have been, and always will be free agents. if, when God calls, and we are not allowed to respond freely, of our own volition, then it is not Love. i could cite some human examples of this, but i think i would come close to breaking a forum rule. if you want those, you can ask for them in the form of a private message. it is very true, that we are redeemed by his blood, but we remain in Him, and He in us, by following the Law of Love, as set down by Christ, and emphasised in James. Paul also states to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling." doesnt sound like a passive belief system to me. sounds like action is required. to the old law with all its rules and regulations is over. we are now under the law of grace. but we must make use of the grace God gives us. its not a one way street. Christ will not force us to be with Him. He invites ALL to the banquet. not just a few elect. hope this helps. Peace to all of you and yours. :wavey: i just like this wavey guy. its cute...:laugh:
     
    #36 calvin, Jan 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2011
  17. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

    So they have a knowledge of Jesus Christ but have you read the context of the passage? Let's look back to verse 1 - "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction." They are false teachers. These are not believers who have fallen into sin but those who have seen the truth, pretended the truth - but were not of the body of faith.


    "For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. "

    Notice some of the terms: they've been enlightened, tasted, shared - but have not been changed. These are not believers but unbelievers who have entered the church, been under the teaching of the Scriptures, have seen the Holy Spirit at work - yet have walked away. They have turned on God. Refused the Word. We see later in the chapter that God pledged an oath - not us.


    We do not do good works to "cooperate" with God for our salvation. Instead, we participate in good works that God has prepared for us BECAUSE of our salvation.


    Salvation is a one time event - that continues. It's an ongoing process to be sanctified, not to "earn" our salvation.


    You mentioned that Paul states "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" but you neglect the next part of that sentence - "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." It is GOD who works in us. We don't work FOR our salvation but instead we work BECAUSE of our salvation. Ephesians 2:10 tells us "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." God has prepared our good works - we work with them for His pleasure and our sanctification. We don't work with our good works to EARN our salvation. If that is so, then Christ's work on the cross was insufficient and I'd hate to be the one who accuses God of doing a half job.
     
  18. calvin

    calvin New Member

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    hi Annsni. i guess we will have to agree to disagree on these passages. i do not see anything in the bible, that says anything other, than a cooperative relationship with Christ, for our salvation. its the same with marriage. the husband cannot be the only one to make the marriage work. it takes both partners to make it work. otherwise it falls apart. Christ being the bride groom, and His people the Church as his bride. if the bride is unfaithful will the husband stay with her? i surely would not. we also have the parable of the 10 foolish virgins. these were certainly believers Christ was talking about. also those who knew Christ but did not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned. they also fell short, and even though they believed, they did not make it to heaven. they did not cooperate with the means Christ had given. they did not follow the Law of Love. faith alone is not enough. it requires works. this is what the focus of James letter is all about. as far as Hebrews 6, i would have to say they were believers. they had, had a conversion experience. but they did not do what was required to maintain their fellowship with the Lord. many passages along these lines, i would not want to take the chance, and Lose my salvation, by being lax in my faith or works. remember what Christ said to the Church of laodocia? we are not saved from the devil, but a righteous God. who, if we are not prepared, will have no choice but to consign us a portion with the unbelievers. it may not hurt to read sinners in the hand of an angry God by Jonathan Edwards. good read. :type: Christ paid the price, he gave us what we needed to have a good hope. he did not go half way in the worlds redemption. if we fail in our walk with him, its not his fault. its completely ours. God condemns no man to hell. man condemns himself.
     
    #38 calvin, Jan 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2011
  19. calvin

    calvin New Member

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    hi my friend. i think James adresses this in his letter. Fath without works is DEAD. show me your faith, without your works, and i will show you my faith, by my works. sorry, i just cant trust that we just believe our way to heaven. its not logical, its not reasonable, its not biblical. the bible says its a relationship. and trust me, realtionships fail. i know that for a fact. :tonofbricks:
     
  20. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    calvin those passages you are referring to all have explanations. The dog and the hog passages are speaking of the unconverted who hear and leave. Christians are not dogs or hogs. The Hebrew passage is speaking of the Jew who has had all the evidences and partook in all of the blessings of God through all the pictures and promises of what is to come and then when the Real comes they turn and walk away. if you look at the passage in Hebrews 6 you will see that they can never return if they do that, but there is a passage in John that totally destroys any possible way that a saved person can go back.
    They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    Any person who claims to be saved and leaves what they claim have had were never saved according to this passage. We do not keep ourselves saved any more then we save ourselves. Once we are saved we are sealed and nothing can change what has taken place.
     
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