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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by wpe3bql, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Where is your quote from?
     
    #41 McCree79, Jun 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2015
  2. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism doesn't teach God causes each and every sin.

    "In regard to men, good as well as bad, he will acknowledge that their counsels, wishes, aims, and faculties are so under his hand, that he has full power to turn them in what ever direction, and constrain them as often as he pleases".
    Calvin 1.17.6

    God doesn't not control every move we make, but if our will buts up with his decretive will, our will is bent or restrained. We are not puppets, but we do have to play inside the boundaries of his will.

    " let us remember that our ruin is attributable to our own depravity, that we may not insinuate charge against God himself....Since man, by the kindness of God, was made upright, but by his own infatuation fell away unto vanity, his destruction is obviously attributable only to himself "

    Calvin 2.1.10

    Man is responsible for his actions.

    You are grossly misrepresenting Calvin's views. The only person I have ever heard embrace that God controls every single event is SBM.
     
    #42 McCree79, Jun 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2015
  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Either God knew He would or you are opening the door to open theism.

    God knows all possible outcomes. Jesus stated that the works done in Chorazin and Bethsaida, if they had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented in sackcloth and ashes. So God knew they would have repented if the same works had been presented unto them.

    Not contortion. God either knows all or He gets surprised all the time.
     
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Puh-leeze.

    Yes, agreed.


    It's not that simple and it's not related to the question.

    Want to take a shot at explaining how Isaiah 38 does not answer the OP's question, which was:

    Can the immutable God ever change His will for an individual's life??
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi McCree79, The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 3, part one. "God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

    Calvinism does indeed teach God causes, predestines and ordains everything that happens including sin. Then, they say this does not make God the author of the sin He predestines. I provided a quote to support this statement of fact.

    Your view is not Calvinism, it supports the idea that God either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. That is not exhaustive determinism.
    Let me ask you this simple question, God knows the future exhaustively and perfectly. Whatever He knows will occur, must occur. Nothing else can occur. Therefore everything, including our each and every sin is predestined by His knowledge of the future according to Calvinism.

    And I am not attempting to represent John Calvin's view, I am representing the views of "Calvinism" which does not always agree with John Calvin.
     
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