Can we judge salvation?

Not necessarily...

Some have been taught that if they follow a list of dos and don'ts they can go to Heaven...
So by looking at them, they go to church, pray, read their Bible.. follow the list the preacher preaches on... But unless they have believed that Jesus died for their sins, they are as lost as the theif down the road.

That is why we cannot be 100% sure...
Some may look saved, do all the right things, but don't have a relationship with Jesus... They don't know him. They only know about him...

Sorta like the difference between a fan and a friend...
I may be a fan of a famous person.. I can know all about their likes, dislikes, who they are dating, what they eat, where they will be.. what their favorite color is.... I may know a lot about them...

But if they don't know me, it doesn't matter..
But if they count me as friend, then we have an ongoing relationship...

Some people are just a Jesus Fan... not a follower.

 

See the thief on the cross. Not so easy to predict his salvation.

Luke 23 :39-43
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."



Brother Bob-Anyone who dies in the act of adultery will not be saved
Joe- Anyone who abandons their children will not be saved, including many child molesters and child abusers
SFIC- People who get drunk, or drink socially will not be saved

Luckily, it's not our decision

 

Anyone that disagrees with tiny will not be... .Nah.. I better be good....

 

Yes, we need one for you TT

It would be fun to make up a list, and place it in the clean humor forum

 

Then Jesus was lying when He stated 'they will know you are my disciples, He was lying when He said the tree is known by its fruit.

The fact is, one can know. Their actions will tell whose they are. Even those who, as you say, go to Church and read their Bibles, etc.. Even those sooner or later will reveal who they truly serve just as Judas did.

It is true until Jesus was betrayed by Judas, the other Disciples did not know his true identity. And yet, ultimately, he did reveal who he served.

As I said, if one claims to be a Christian, and are constantly in sin with no apparent remorse, no chastening hand of God, then they are Christian in name only.

Anyone who thinks they can sin and not feel the least bit convicted for that sin better have a talk with God... a serious talk.

 

Do you feel a sense of urgency when offering the gospel to someone who is dying and has not lived a life which at least appears not to be a Christian one? That's the point I was making.

 

Do you feel a sense of urgency in the same situation?

 

Though I take issue, strong issue, with your belief that you can judge the salvation of others, you do have an important point here.

The Bible does say that if you are without the chastening of the Lord you are not His children.

The problem, however, is that The Doctrine of Divine Discipline also recognizes the ultimate form of discipline for the believer, that being the sin unto death, the last cycle of discipline for the believer.

So it may be in attempting to judge whether someone else is saved, all you may see is someone dying the sin unto death and of course under those conditions your observation and conclusion would be erring because you would only see a fruitless life at its end and wrongly decide they weren't really saved when in reality they were saved but they were dying the sin unto death which is of course the ultimate form of Divine Discipline for the believer.

 

Well, we can judge a person's fruit, but our judgement is not perfect. There are those who seem to be Christians and are not, according to scripture.


Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

 

I agree 100%. We can know by their fruits just as the Disciples were told they could know false prophets by their fruit.

 

SFIC, in your judgment, am I a Christian?

 

tinytim,

I am not around you on a daily basis. I have only seen words on the screen. Actions speak louder than words. How do you live around others? Does that life line up with God's Word?

In other words, are you walkin' what yer talkin'?

 

You are saved, no doubt :thumbs:

 

The scripture plainly says "unawares". I think that means, we don't know them, until they make it known by some action to take away our peace.

Why would Paul have to tell them if they are able to know who is saved and who is not??

You may be able to judge who is going to heaven and who is not, but I do not claim to have that ability. I would mess it all up. Nature would cause me to lean towards my own children, family and friends. Nature would cause me to lean towards people who are just likeable.

Rom 14:4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

1Cr 4:3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

1Cr 4:4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

1Cr 4:5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If we could know all that are saved, then the following scripture would not make sense.

Mat 13:29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

This is just how I believe we are supposed to be.

BBob,

 

Yes. I don't they're necessarily that effective, but I believe in death bed conversions.
I also accept Paul's wors when he said.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

If it's obvious that I'm going to be the last person to share the gospel with this nperson then yes I feel a sense of urgency.

 

Brother Bob,

We can judge whether a person is a Christian or not by the way they live. If they are Christ's, they will live a Christian life.

Judging is not deciding. You can judge whether your child is a Christian or not... by their love one for another, by the fact that they do not live a lifestyle contrary to God's Holy Word.

But the decision as to who goes to heaven belongs only to God. Deciding and judging are two different avenues.

 

Very good point...
So you admit that you have to really, really know a person before you can know if they are saved, right?

What about a casual contact?

How well do you have to know someone?

Couldn't someone fool you if you wasn't around them daily?

See the danger of passing judgment...

 

But... SFIC, though we agree on a lot more than we disagree, I partake of wine from time to time, and you would "judge" me unsaved by that. That's why I think only the Lord can judge ones salvation, if humans were good at knowing exactly what every single verse in the Bible meant, there wouldn't be thousands of denominations. Man's judgement is flawed.

 

tim,

Paul, throughout his epistles, commended certain persons describing them as 'brethren' or 'saints.' Paul must have seen something in those persons. He also commanded that some be received as they were 'labourers in the Word and in the faith.'

Some he warned against... such as Alexander the Coppersmith who did him 'much evil.'

I believe we can know even casual acquantances by the testimony of others.