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Featured Can We Trust The Holy Bible Today? Part 1

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by SavedByGrace, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus quoted and used the OT as being the very word of God, and he also stated that the same Holy Spirit that moved upon the OT prophets would now be coming upon and in his Apostles, to record down in the originals!
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They were in the process of being recorded down though, as evidenced by Paul quoting Luke as same as Isaiah in scripture, and peter acknowledging Paul as scripture also!
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are there any differences between your Kjv and the originals then? Both they and Kjv equally inspired then?
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, Jesus did. BUT Jesus did not quote "the originals". Jesus picked up a scroll in the synagogue and read the inspired Word of God (something you deny).

    Where you took God's name in vain (and should be ashamed) is when you put words into Jesus' mouth and used Him as a puppet for your own agenda buy posting "Jesus knew that the OT was verbal Plenary inspired and that the NT would now be also!". This is taking God's name in vain because Jesus did not confirm that the OT was "verbal plenary inspired" but instead treated the OT that the NT Jews had as the inspired Word of God.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The OT that Jesus had was not an original copy. The Scripture that Paul had was not an original autograph. IF Paul wrote that all Scripture is inspired, but did not really have the "inspired Scripture" and instead an "infallible but not inspired" OT then Paul and God is a liar. Period.

    But Scripture IS inspired (even the OT that Paul, Jesus, and the Apostles had in their possession). God is NOT a liar. And you are wrong.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was stating that the original word of God was trustworthy, and that the NT books of the Apostles were to be just as inspired as the original OT books were!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    you are dead wrong here that Paul and peter did not refer this to their original scriptures was in the process of recording down, as our translation are infallible, but not inspired nor inerrant!
     
  8. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Has it been soundly proven from the Scriptures that inspiration is to be considered an attribute or quality that describes the process of the copying of the Scriptures or the process of the translating of the Scriptures?

    Do some KJV defenders soundly prove from the Scriptures the idea that inspiration is clearly identified in Scripture to be a continuing attribute or quality that will be or at least can be transferred in the later process of translation?

    If inspiration was a continuing attribute or quality in the Hebrew Masoretic OT text and in the Textus Receptus NT text that could be transferred during translation, then it would be expected that it should have been transferred to the 1537 Matthew’s Bible, to the 1560 Geneva Bible, or to all the pre-1611 English Bibles. How would the fact of some significant textual differences in the varying printed Textus Receptus editions suggest that all the editions had the continuing quality of inspiration? If inspiration was not transferred to any of the pre-1611 English Bibles, does it suggest that inspiration was not a continuing quality or attribute that could be transferred or does it suggest that the Hebrew Masoretic text and the Textus Receptus did not have it? Could the same attribute be affirmed and denied of the same things which are dependent upon each other? If inspiration was an attribute or quality of any of the pre-1611 English Bibles, it could be regarded as a serious problem for KJV-only reasoning since the makers of the KJV made many changes and revisions to their “inspired” words. From which specific accessible perfect source is it asserted that the KJV directly obtained this claimed continuing attribute or quality of inspiration? The fact that the KJV was actually made from multiple, imperfect, textually-varying sources makes it difficult if not impossible for KJV-only advocates to explain from which one specific OT source and from which one specific NT source from the KJV is supposed to have obtained any continuing quality of inspiration.

    Could the adjectival participial phrase [“given by inspiration of God”] simply present the means whereby the process of the giving of the Scriptures to the prophets and apostles takes place instead of presenting a quality or attribute or instead of presenting the means for the different process of copying or the different process of translating?

    Perhaps those KJV defenders who asserted that inspiration is not an attribute or quality that can be transferred during the process of translating and who asserted that inspiration is a term for the process by which the Scriptures proceeded from the mouth of God to the prophets and apostles make the sounder and more scriptural case.

    A few KJV-only authors may be trying to change the definition of inspiration in hopes of trying to justify their modern, human KJV-only reasoning.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Jesus and the Apostles considered the Old Testament to be Scripture. They considered what they were writing to be just as inspired as it was directly from God (Paul even specifies when it is not).

    But you are ignoring the fact that Jesus Himself affirmed Scripture (not the original autograph but what Jesus quoted and read from the scroll) as Scripture, the words of God, and inspired.

    I understand why you want to believe that we do not have God's Word today. But there is no evidence for this claim (it is a product of theology, not God).

    You have to realize that there are many Christians (Martin Luther, John Calvin, for example) who believe that God is not only able to preserve His Word but has done exactly that because His Word are not the words but His revelation communicated through those words.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We do not need to have inspired translations in order to have fully trustworthy ones to us now!

    If translation were indeed inspired, would be perfect....
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think you are misunderstanding what I have posted and what Martin Luther has written on the topic.

    I am saying that we have the inspired Word of God. I am not saying that individual translations are inspired. I am saying that man does not conquer God and divine inspiration transcends interpretation.

    I know that I have a trustworthy bible because it is God's Word.

    You say you have a trustworthy bible that is man's words, but I do not know that it is possible for man to produce anything that is completely trustworthy.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is trustworthy due to it being 99% of the original inspired word of the Lord to us, so indeed trustworthy and true!
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You have no way of knowing it is 99% of the original words. You do not have the originals.
     
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have preserved by God to us now all of the manuscripts and lectionaries and uncils and others so we can get back to essential what the originals did record down to us still!
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nonsense. You have no way of knowing those manuscripts we have point to an original inspired text. You have no way of separating what you believe could point to a once inspired text from a man-made doctrine.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have no inspired text!
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Don't include me in your sect.

    YOU have no inspired Scripture. I have the inspired, infallible, inerrant, and perfect Word of God.
     
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  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    .

    The message to anyone who says and or believes, as demonstrated by their actions, this type of philosophy: is of no use to God.

    The elimination of the influence and life of the proponent of the denial of the fully preserved inspiration of The Eternal Word of God is to be received and forgotten of.

    The Word of God has been Preserved and I'd As Alive as The Holy Spirit and "is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and Spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

    Thoughts of the mind of man reasoning with and brain that has been fatally effected by the curse of sin inherited from our first greatest granddad, Adam, is flesh, which profits nothing.

    "The Words I Speak into you are Spirit and Life".

    The Bible is Alive, as The Inspired Words Preserved for us by The One and Only True and Living God.

    The denial is a deathrattle in the throat of an apostate.

    Jesus Said that The Words He Spoke wrre Spirit and Life.

    How did He Know they would be Preserved for us?

    Jesus is God.

    God is Big Enough to Exault His Word Above His Name.

    The Word Testifies of Him and He has His Word Inspired, Alive and We'll, in the hands of Mankind.
     
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    which Bible translation IS The Perfect Word of God?
     
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. People get caught up in "which translations are the Word of God" because translations differ.

    It is, IMHO, spiritual ignorance to think that God can save us yet limit His inspired Word to the translation choices of men.

    The Bible is the inspired Word of God because it is "God breathed" and transcends mere words on a page.

    Scripture is not as a superficial thing those who wonder which translations would make it out to be.
     
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