can you believe it

Comparing a genocidal maniac with someone who's had sex outside of marriage is a ridiculous comparison.

 

No.

 

We're not a Christian nation. We're not a thocracy of any kind. However, your use of the "turn the other cheek" verse is completely out of context here.

 

You make it sound like I condone homosexual beavior. I don't. I do, however, condone and encourage everyone to be loving to all people (our neighbors) as Christ commanded (as we love ourselves).

 

I heard a great sermon on what Turn the Other Cheek really meant. Jesus was in a Semetic culture, and HE says to turn the right cheek, specifically. The cultural significance is that the attacker has used his left hand to attack. The symbolism is two-fold. One, the left hand is the unclean hand used for dirty things, as in wiping after going to the bathroom and is also used for hitting women and children (or animals). Striking with that hand was also a REAL put down if used man to man. There was also something about using the back of the hand versus the palm of the hand but I don't remember what that significance was.

The right hand is the sword hand of a soldier so if the soldier is using his left hand they consider the slap to be a non-threat. Should that person then get up and present "the other cheek" they are telling their agressor that they ARE resisting this assault and will have to be beaten or killed before they will be stopped. Sort of reminds me of the slap upon the cheek with a glove to demand a duel.

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That really puts 'turn the other cheek' in another light, does it not?

Diane

 

As difficult as it is, we have been commanded to love (agape) each other and our neighbor as we love (agape) ourselves. Just as Christ loved (agape) us ( as if we could do that). This does not mean we have to like them or their lifestyle or their crimes. It means we should be praying for their repentance and reconciliation with our Heavenly Father through Christ Jesus the Son. This does not mean he should escape Earthly justice as God has provided it through governments. We as Christians and a nation should treat all of our criminals with decency and compassion.

I believe this is where JohnV is coming from. He is kind of liberal, but he is right that we need to love the lost.

 

Reminds me of the verse:

Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

This is how all those who reject Christ will end.

 

Yes, that's exactly were I'm coming from (well, except for the liberal stuff ... I'm in reality a moderate, more conservative than centrist. So some of my views will seem liberal, and some conservative, depending on one's stance I generally don't base my stance on issues based on what other conservatives or liberals think.

But yes, you hit the nail on the head. While we are commanded to love (agape), that does not absolve one of earthly responsibilities, like punishment for crimes, or restitution for wrongdoing.

 

You are absolutely right, we are not a Christian nation. If Saddam is responsible for all that the media and government has alleged then I would be the first one to shoot him. It is just funny how somethings are so black and white while others are not.

There are many in the Bible that were mass murders and the Bible doesn't really say much about it other than it happened. But when you take a look at Sodom and Gomarrah, the Bible has plenty to say about that!

 

I disagree. The Bible is broader. Same gender sexual activity (as opposed to the broader term, "homosexuality") is likened to lying, selfish pride, and dishonest business practices. I think we tend to compartmentalize homosexual behavior with murder, adultery, and stealing to make us feel better about our own sins, and perhaps as an attempt to trivialize our own sinfullness. But the Bible list several of these more "trivial" sins as abominations to the point where we must accept that most of us are just as guilty as abominations before God as the next person. We ere often talk about moral relativism. If there's any moral relativism going on in the pews, it is most often among Christians who have rationalized and trivialized their sins to the point where they think their sins aren't nearly as bad as murderers, adulterers, thieves, and homosexuals.

The Apostle Paul believed that he was the chief of all sinners; he was broken over the destructiveness of his own sin to God, others, and himself. That's how I want to be. None of us is better than Saddam. None of us is less of a sinner. Still, that simple fact doesn't change the main issue: He's committed genocide, and must accept the earthly responsibility that his actions carry.

 

Sure... and we should share this blame with every person who bought goods from this country you imply, lived under the umbrella of their Cold War protection, or used their tanks/planes/bullets/beans to fight off the NAZIs in WWII.

How about the people who supplied Saddam with technology or military materials very recently? Do they bear responsibility? How about those who illegally provided a market for his oil? How about those in the international coalition and UN that prevented us from removing him in 1991? Do they bear any responsibility?

 

I disagree. The Bible is broader. Same gender sexual activity (as opposed to the broader term, "homosexuality") is likened to lying, selfish pride, and dishonest business practices. I think we tend to compartmentalize homosexual behavior with murder, adultery, and stealing to make us feel better about our own sins, and perhaps as an attempt to trivialize our own sinfullness. But the Bible list several of these more "trivial" sins as abominations to the point where we must accept that most of us are just as guilty as abominations before God as the next person. We ere often talk about moral relativism. If there's any moral relativism going on in the pews, it is most often among Christians who have rationalized and trivialized their sins to the point where they think their sins aren't nearly as bad as murderers, adulterers, thieves, and homosexuals.

The Apostle Paul believed that he was the chief of all sinners; he was broken over the destructiveness of his own sin to God, others, and himself. That's how I want to be. None of us is better than Saddam. None of us is less of a sinner. Still, that simple fact doesn't change the main issue: He's committed genocide, and must accept the earthly responsibility that his actions carry. </font>[/QUOTE]John,

You're right on the money! All sin is sin in God's sight--any sin condemns us as guilty before God. But all sins do not have equal consequences--thus justice demands greater punishment for those sins of greater consequence.

To make application, Saddam's sins are far greater in scope and effect than any sin any one of us has committed. His heart is still hard. God may yet forgive him, but that's His business. Meanwhile there may be much greater opportunities for the gospel to take root in those he formerly oppressed. That's where my prayers are directed.