Canadian Health Care Imploding

Hey LB, I believe he is talking about you being debunked. I don't know that I have posted statistics that have been debunked. If so show me.

I did post the wrong link, however. Here is the corrected link:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._public_sector_health_care_option_41_disagree

Seems your number may not be correct. Single payer vs. public health insurance options can be debated later.

 

The debunked number is the 72% of Americans who favor government run health care. I quoted you because I cant quote him he is on my ignore list. The only time I see his posts are when he is quoted.

 

Thanks Revmitchell. That is what I thought.

 

Look at the article. They didn't include the US in the countries they looked at to improve their medical care. I wonder why?

 

What are you talking about?

 

I don't get it, I show a series of polls showing support for public option and it was said my poll numbers were outdated yet you can show one poll from June and all my numbers are now debunked. Who made the debunking rules? And we all know Rasmussen is about as unbiased as a Fox poll. You can go to clear politics and see how they are consistently lower when it comes to Liberal numbers.

 

Nice to be loved... :thumbsup:

someone should tell Rev that little story about forgiveness. I would, but he's ignoring me... :laugh::thumbsup:

 

Oh, puhleeeeeze!!! Nobody here (Canadians, I'm speaking of) has denied that there are problems - get with the program!! There are problems in any system (including yours with whatever you end up with, current or otherwise.) If you don't like our universal health care - good for you - go for something else. Nobody's carping all over you or goosestepping you into something else becuz you feel uncomfortable with it. Just don't be dissing our system becuz you don't know any better!!! That's not only rude, but ignorant.

 

This post is full of misinformation, ignorance, and silly misspellings. And just because you have figured out how to use both "rude" and "ignorant' in the same sentence is not convincing. Did you notice it was not me who posted the op? Enough said.

 

Canada's health care system is not perfect but it beats the current Amercian system to pieces. America is rotting from the inside out with irrational fears. I feel that most American believers would hate me even though I'm a Christian but I commit the unpardonable sin of disagreeing with Rush Limbaugh, I enjoy the socialized medical system of Canada!

 

It's good to hear from people who have used other health care systems like Canada's rather than those who spread innuendo and outright lies about Obama's proposal.

 

You have no idea what fears are irrational or worth while. And how you feel is just feelings based on your socialistic need to be a victim.

 

As I understand it eye glasses, prescription drugs, ambulance services and dental work – among others - are not covered under the Canadian system in most areas.

Does anyone know if the "public option" under consideration for us include those areas?

 

Well..... Here's an honest story about health care.... in the US......

The President says 46 million without insurance..... The figures he quotes aren't proven. We had better (more accurate) counts back when Billary Care was bounced around.... and the figures were way off then also.... but easier to surmise the truth.... even though Gore's internet wasn't yet common place.

Obama says insurance can drop their coverage for new health conditions......
I don't know what country he's from or where he's going..... but if he keeps lying to the people about this...........hmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!
Unless this is an individual thing with the states..... and I don't think so ..... because I believe it is already a mandate of federal law and regulations in the US upon the insurance industry.....

If, while you're already covered by insurance, you develop an acute or chronic health condition.... as long as your insurance coverage continues with premium payments.... you cannot lose coverage for 'conditions'. If, after having insurance coverage, whether with or without medical conditions, one transfers coverage from one policy to another so that there is no lapse of coverage, particularly through the provisions of employment provided or offered health insurance... then pre-existing conditions are usually covered. If its a case of a voluntary transfer of coverage.... then different conditions may (emphasis on MAY) allow limits on preexisting conditions..... but the individual should have already considered this and examined his options before separating from one job voluntarily or shopping for new insurance under a known pre or potentially pre condition.

But if a questionaire is required for coverage.... people are expected to answer honestly and with holding information can subject them to loss coverage or exceptions due hiding or lying about conditions: This is proper as the person seeking coverage should be truthful, and the business of insurance needs the additional actuarial data input to adjust annual changes in premiums to reflect its ability to service the policies and remain solvent. Whatever may be the impression of working with insurance.... for those of you outside the US.... the policies offered through most employers are offered as a 'group' plan..... and those often subscribed to by individuals are also often grouped by some demographical data system...... so the premiums are standardized within that company for 'the group' to which you belong. Private insurance (it is considered 'private' whether your company 'self insures' its employees, or purchases a plan through an insurance company or one chosen by the individual in preference or absence of employer provided insurance.... have a cost protection provision: They may contract with some medical providers/ labs/ hospitals/ to provide participants with services.... with agreements to accept participants co-pays (usually a small amount..... $5-10) and discount the charges to the company. The plans may allow for 'out of plan' consults, second opinions, personal choice of doctor..... in which case, plan agrees to pay its usual fee within the guidelines already set.... and the participant has to pay the undiscounted balance....... unless he's successful in negotiating with his out of plan doctor to accept the insurance and pass a discounted balance on to him to pay.

Also, for non-emergency or elective conditions, health insurance companies have an advisory board which requires and passes on authorization for treatment. This authorization often takes place the same day as requested. If delayed by questions or turned down.... one still gets a timely notice regarding status. This is what some are complaining about with the Obama plan as to some it seems like a repeat of the same..... There is one BIG BIG BIG difference, however: Under private pay insurance, if your doctor recommends a treatment and your insurance refuses to authorize it.... the insurance companies have policies and time frames to give you a formal response..... and you have a formal option..... which may include court or arbitration if you and/or your doctor is unhappy with their decision. In the event that the insurance company refuses to pay.... and authorize a needed treatment, and after exhausting one's appeal.....before receiving the care... one still may have a position to sue the insurance company to make them pay for the medical expenses provided one carefully jumped through the proper hoops .....and it can be shown that the company acted unresponsibly and arbitrary in its decision or its processes of notification or reviewing supporting information. BUT, the government can and does excuse itself from obligations of arbitration (and from suit for any wrongful action or decision by its agents.....including medical personnel and equipment failure)..... if it should disagree with your doctor's recommendation. The fact that one may be willing and able to pay for the extra expense which the government refuses, may actually be held against the participant..... and his doctor fined for going out of the boundaries o f his employment.... as the government is now both the payer for services and the employer of the doctor who delivers the service.

(I've thought about Palin's pregnancy.... high risk, pre-diaganosed probable down's syndrome....... under Kevorkian/Obama care... she'd likely be counseled to abort.... and it might be 'forced' via..... all or none compliance to receive medical services.)

I've had COBRA on two occassions... and each time, received an affadavit from companies attesting to continued coverage without lapse which insured that my next insurance would not hold preconditions against me, provided I obtained coverage with in a given period of time after separating from one company to another.

Now I have no insurance. I could really be in a foul way should something really major hit. But I know and impliment health practices..... I know and understand my health conditions. When I have symptoms..... I decide whether or not its necessary to see a doctor or try to figure what's going on and use reasoning to determine how best to self treat. Retaining whatever 'problems' I may have uncertainties about.... I keep these filed in a list inside my head to disclose to the doctor when I feel the need to get a check up or seek treatment. Recently, I knew I needed a TSH blood draw since its been over a year since medication was adjusted upward... and conditions might have changed. So having had some shortness of breath.... for many months (I see an oncologist twice a year... but not all complaints or symptoms are checked by him), I requested an EKG at the pay-cash-per-visit clinic where uninsured are seen for $40/ a pop. It showed heart trouble.... but this particular clinic only refers to the ER. Instead, I checked around and found that there's a group of doctors in the area that offers those without insurance and low income, low cost but good medical care. The next week I saw that doctor who refered me for blood work and an chest film.... and wrote a referral to a cardiologist. The next week I was seeing the cardiologist..... and the next week I was having a heart stress test to check the rhythm of heart beat and the functioning of the heart valves. I don't know that this experience is possible elsewhere across the nation.... but, I do know, that several things work in my favor... even with limited income and no insurance.......
1) God provides... (this doesn't mean to test him..... BUT it is only just that I give him credit above all persons and things which might have also worked in my favor)
2) I took responsibility for my health care and decisions including the time to know something about my problem and asked for help.
3) Of necessity, available services, either free or at reduced rates, are quite expectedly, unpublished and unadvertised.... so one must seek them out through the usual channels where such information is likely shared.... health department, social services, church or charity, other people in a similar situation.
4) To help these services work for you.... its important to refer to the information given and follow it to the letter regarding keeping appointments and turning in referrals for approval and getting authorization before accepting an appointment.
5) One may expect to be inconvenienced.... having to run in one direction to pick up an authorization..... having to wait a long time after the appointed time to be seen..... but in my area.... this is largely a donated service by the medical personnel and specialists, with some kind of pharmaceutical or state funded assistance given for some (not all) medications.
===============

So.......
I don't know how good or how bad Canadians have it.
I do know my parents, in their eighties, don't have any problem getting new knees, skin tags or cancers removed..... some even with the surgery continuing as a slow process of removal and microscopic checks between until all is clean and cancer free.... to prevent or reduce scarring.... and eyelid lifts or tucks.. etc. No delays in referralls and plenty of specialist available for consult.... and the latest equipment, and a hospital with all private rooms. When mother fell and broke her foot... a pin and foot set was in less than 24 hours... and, as her recovery time was uncertain..... insurance paid for the walker and wheelchair as well as two months in a nursing home where she could get daily physical therapy on her foot and leg. Yes.... already into her 80's.

 

Have faith in all the stories and the Kevorkian-Obama Health Care Plan that you want.........

But when all is said and done......
You may have to move elsewhere to see just how well their health plan works..... or accept the health care plan here......... which is as good as a congressional vote or beareaucratic decision from determining for you and your doctor..... what is your reasonable care and what is excessive.......and you will have no choice to opt out or pick and choose what care you follow... and it is possible that the decision to continue your medical care may depend upon your compliance with procedures or vaccination programs which are offered.


Personally, I hold any public plan which treats citizens as different from our elected officials (like governors, representatives, senators) or allows a special treatment or exemption for electied officials and the rich.... as suspect.

Also..... I doubt that the advances which have been made in medicine will continue under a public program which will add to the difficulty of enlisting volunteer patient/candidates into research testing of new medicine or medical devices.

 

Careful there HAm. Committing the unpardonable sin will sentence one to an eternity in Hell.:godisgood:

 

Bureaucratic decisions have been made for me constantly by my insurance company. What's so terrific about that? Evidence comes in from people who live elsewhere that their system is better. You choose to ignore it. The World Health organization ranks the US 37th in the world in terms of the quality of our health care (for all not just the rich) barely ahead of Cuba and behind Costa Rica. So what you say. They're a "communist organization." Millions of Americans don't have health insurance as discussed in the following article. Not important, right? They could probably buy it but chose not to. Whatever.....


July 22, 2009
About One in Six U.S. Adults Are Without Health Insurance
Highest uninsured rates among Hispanics, the young, and those with low incomes
by Frank Newport and Elizabeth Mendes
http://www.gallup.com/poll/121820/One-Six-Adults-Without-Health-Insurance.aspx