Castaway: Picking the scab of Christian accountability

HP: JJ, so the soul life consists of the desires, wants, and whatever ‘etc.’ means to you, and this was shown to you by the Holy Spirit and Scripture. Where do you find such an explanation of the nature of the soul in Scripture?

 

HP again that has all been explained before. Just go back and re-read some of the past threads on this matter.

 

Hmm... I typed out a response to your question yesterday, but it's not here. I either posted it in the wrong place or it went into the great abyss of electrons...

Body - Matthew 26:12: For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did [it] for my burial.

Soul - Mark 14:34: And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. (Also, Acts 2:27 (which is referring back to Psalm 16:10): Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.)

Spirit - Luke 23:46 (Which is a quote from Psalm 31:5): And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

 

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HP: What good does it do to quote verses with soul and spirit, if in fact there is no indication in the text that clarifies what the distinction is? What I see is whole doctrines being built around a distinction that is not clarified in Scripture or reason. The fact is that one definition of spirit is soul, and a definition of soul is spirit. They both simply depict the inner man as opposed to the flesh.

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Well, it's certainly not a fact, but apparently an opinion of yours.

However, the language and the context both deny your opinion.
Instead of doing a lot of retyping, you can click here for a message on the salvation of the soul; you can read it online, download the pdf, or download the mp3: Salvation of the Soul

 

It has to make you wonder why, if they're the same thing as according to your opinion, why God saw the necessity of delineating between the two, down to saying that the Word can divide them, just as joints and marrow can be divided?

 

HP: The verse in question does not just say, as you indicate, that the Spirit divides “just as” the joints and marrow are divided, but states that the Spirit 'divides' the joints and marrow. Note that if you say that the Word of God divides the soul and spirit, it also must divide the joints and marrow. How can it accomplish that? If you try and tell me that it is just figuratively referring to the ability of the Word of God to reveal to us that which is hidden or secret, then the dividing of the soul and spirit is figurative speaking to the same end as well, not trying to establish some hard and fast separation between the two literally.

 

Allow me to interject, and then go away....

Joints andmarrow are TWO different parts of the body. Just as soul and spirit are TWO different parts of a person. They can be (say it with me slowly) divided !

 

HP: No bailing allowed!

 

Ezek 18:4 "The soul that sins - it shall die"
Rev 20:4 "I saw the souls of those who... and they came to LIFE and ruled... the REST of the dead did not COME TO LIFE until AFTER the 1000 years was finished".

Gen 2:4-8 God breathed into man the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul (living being).

Matt 10 - "Fear Him who is able to dESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell"

 

If, as you claim, that despite God delineating between the soul and spirit, that they are the same, what happens when you separate them from the body? Or do you think they cannot be separated from the body?

(BTW, we were created in the image of God, and the last I checked, God is a trinity.)

 

HP: Our soul is destined to stand before the Lord in judgment, either to receive the rewards and end of our hope at home with God for eternity, or face the fires of damnation in a living hell.

Yes, our spirit and or our soul, our ‘inner man,’ will be separated from this physical body as we now know it. This mortal must put on immortality. I believe that God will grant to us a new body of a nature yet to be revealed in the resurrection and world to come, just as He promises. That is how I read the Scriptures.

 

How do you separate them from the body? How do you put them back?

 

HP: The body is our physical. Our spirit or soul is spiritual. What do you mean by asking how ‘I put them back?’

 

I have been working 125 miles away from home up in the beautiful Idaho mountains 6 days a week for the last three weeks. That is why I cannot keep up with the discusion and asked that I be allowed to 'interject and go away".

(Yes, Bob. I work on saturdays. OOh. But I am able to make it to services at my home church each sunday.)

 

1Th 5:23
¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Apparently the Scripture just put your 'spirit=soul' theory to bed, kissed it good night, tucked it in and left it to rest.

We are a trichotomy. Three yet one. Just like God. Three, yet one. Made in His image.

Ta-da!

 

After quite a few days of ignoring this thread: Castaway: Picking the scab of Christian accountability
I find out that the OP starts out with a quote from me. I didn't pay much attention to the thread. After all who would pay attention to a thread talking about "picking scabs" and then "castng them away" (castaway). I suppose one shouldn't judge a book by its cover as the old adage goes.

As to the passage in question:
Luke 9:24-26 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Let's consider the wording of the same passage in Mark 8
Mark 8:35-38 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

The question (as I remeber it) centered around Luke 9:25; Mark 8:36.
We established the fact that Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
Can a disciple lose his own soul (salvation), or be a castaway (lose his salvation). The answer of course is no. Once he has been given eternal life; eternal means eternal and Christ does not lie. The Scripture does not contradict itself. Shame on those who try to make it contradict itself by taking Scripture out of context.

The problem for some is that they cannot accept that if the words of Jesus are directed to his disciples then how could some of his words be speaking of the unsaved? Why should this be a problem for anyone? Paul writes to Christians and warns them: "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith." This is a warning to the saved, not the unsaved.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
--Again, another warning written to Christian believers, not the unsaved.

Christ often uses comparisons and contrasts in his teaching. He often gives warnings. He contrasts the sheep to the goats. light and darkness, etc.

Luke 9:26 was a statement of fact; a warning to his disciple; a teaching that was true for all to learn. It was not a principle directed to his disciples that they were going to lose their salvation any more then whe he said: How hardly shall a rich man enter into the Kingdom of God; I say unto you it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to entier into the Kingdom of God." The disciples took that as impossible. But he wasn't applying that to his disciples; they weren't rich. It was a principle they needed learn that rich people tend to trust in their riches and materialism more than in spiritual things, more than in their need for a Saviour.

An unsaved person (especially one who is rich--like Napolean) can conquor the world. And he did. But what did it profit him if he didn't have Christ and lost his own soul to eternity. Learning that fact alone ought to have spurned the disciples more to evangelisim; not to worry about their own salvation. They were secure in their own salvation. Their salvation was not at stake. Their service for Christ was being discussed. The subject of this entire passage is discipleship. It has nothing to do with salvation.
DHK

 

No no no. You poor child. You see "Take up your cross" really means to get saved!

Or not.

lacy

 

So, the question becomes: Is he talking about losing your spiritual salvation or losing something else?