Casting Crowns' Concert

So, in a thread where many are castigating Aaron for being judgment, you feel the liberty to say that he is not of God? Isn't that strange? It sounds like you a "my way or the high way" kind of person.

FTR, I don't think Aaron was questioning or saying something negative about someone doing something for God. He is questioning whether or not they are actually doing anything for God, a perfectly appropriate question in light of Jesus statement about many who will say "Lord Lord" and yet will never have known Christ.

It doesn't take long in these conversations for the judgmental side of both sides to come out. And those on the contemporary side are at least as guilty as those on the traditional side.

And in the end, there is very little substantive interaction with the meaning of musical styles. Which is sad. You would rather attack "traditionalists" then try to interact with substantive issues. I don't think that is wise.

 

Yep, but me no God. We just calls um likes we see's um Sir. I just laid out a pair of shoes but if you say they fit Aaron, then i guess they fit Aaron.

Now, FTR, Aaron is being castigated for being judgemental regarding a group he admittedly hasn't sean or heard. I on the other hand has had the privilege of reading his post. It is not judgmental to call a black cat black. It is stating facts.

 

But you may be seeing wrongly. The fact that you have said that Aaron is not of God is staggering to me, particularly in light of the fact that you are calling him out for being judgmental.

I have no idea what this means.

And you dont' find it wrong to be judgmental? If not, then why do you castigate Aaron for being judgmental?

As with the shoes, I am not sure how the cat fits in here. You do not seem willing to interact with the issues Aaron raises, but have no problem calling him names. Doesn't that seem out of line to you?

 

Is there any evidence, Scriptural or otherwise, that Christ and the Apostles did or sanctioned a concert?

If that were true I would have already pounced.

I think if you look at all my posts, I said nothing good or bad about Casting Crowns. I asked pointed questions about the Scriptural criteria concerning true worship and how this group conformed to them. The questions couldn't be answered, and now I'm the one to blame.

And blaming is easier than answering the questions, isn't it?

 

No I didn't. I didn't say a word about the concert. Read it again. I said your criterion for spiritual worship were lacking because the carnal worshippers at Corinth met it.

Yeah, I do. I see those with scant knowledge of the Scriptures vaunting themselves as discerning individuals. Oh wait . . . you got the Holy Spirit. Who needs the Scriptures?

 

So, when you accuse and judge me, are you doing Satan's work?

 

If you read carefully, I said nothing negative, neither did I detract from others. I simply asked how they knew that what Casting Crowns was doing was spiritual.

I did shoot down the poor answers—yet not I, but the Scriptures did.

Now I'm called a child of Satan. Now honestly, who's being Pharisaical here?

 

Au contraire, mon frere. I merely asked what the Scriptural criteria for true worship is, and all the answers wilted under the heat of the scrutiny of the Scriptures.

 

I was in a discussion with a fella once. He was of the opinion that the CCM crowd was the passive crowd, gentle and kind. That the traditional folks were the judgmental one's (present company excluded, he said). I told him that simply questioning their practices would bring the wrath and ire of that group down upon a person. He didn't believe me. That was a while back.

Well, now I have a thread where I said nothing good or bad about a group, but merely gave you all the opportunity to show how what they were doing was eminently Scriptural and consistent with what the true disciples have been doing since the First Century.

And Just look at the railing accusations and unmitigated judgments that were cast my way.

Now I have a thread to which to link him, and I want to thank you all for backing up the things I said. :godisgood:

 

Sorry, broke my promise.

I just wanted to make a distinction...I don't think I'm taking what I said as far as what others said. I do believe that Aaron has a pre-judgement in this realm and is leading the discussion that direction. I also said that he (but I should have said we) should take care before casting judgements.

However, I'm uncomfortable with the "accuser of the brethren" tone and I don't want my comments to be construed as heading that direction.

Just a clarification. And now I'll bow out.

 

Have you actually given him the correct answer though? There are many people who are frauds, who appear to be doing the right thing but in the end their works will burn up. I have yet to talk to a Christian who was positively impacted by CC ... which is the same as your "yet to talk to" statement. It is simply irrelevant.

Is Aaron trying to redefine worship? And redefine it from what? As I ahve read Aaron, he has simply asked questions to get people to think about what the Bible says about worship. That's not trying to redefine it, unless you mean redefine it from the almost meaningless definition it has today.

But can you? That is the question. Or perhaps more specifically, can you worship God to any type of music? A solid understanding of God and music would lead us to conclude otherwise.

I don't think you could sustain this for very long. Music, in and of itself, has meaning. It communicates before you ever put words to it.

But the fact is that you don't know this. You know people who claim to be Christians like it. That is far different from knowing something. For me, it is not that I don't believe them. I have yet to see any substantive argument about it. And in the end, I am not calling anyone a liar. I would point out that if you say "I know they are serving God," you are incorrect. You may believe that they are, but you don't know, and that is a big difference.

 

I am not sure how you can make this statement. This whole thread is full of Christians who have been positively impacted by CC.

 

I make that statement because I haven't talked to anyone here.

As a side note, which was not my point in my previous comment, I am not sure that anyone here has been positively impacted. There's no doubt that there has been impact. Has it been "positive" in the sense that the Bible would argue for? Without more information, I can't really determine that satisfactorily for myself. But again, that's not really my point.

I think certain types of music used regularly, or used in certain ways, contribute to a lessening of our affections, and an increase in our sentimentality. The evidence for that is simply to look at our lives (we are not a more godly generation through the widespread use of CCM) and look at our emotions (we are emotionally moved by things that are absolutely sappy). We have not increased our critical thinking ability, particularly in areas of doctrine and theology. We are perhaps the weakest generation theologically of church history, given the number of resources available. And I can't help but think that is due in large part to the uncritical nature with which certain types of music have been accepted as worship in the church. I think this could be fairly easily demonstrated simply by reading what is said here, as well as seeing it in our churches.

For my dollar, CC has one decent song that could be done much better--Who Am I. The rest that I have heard have honestly been pretty weak. And the truth is, in music, I fall pretty much in the middle of the road in terms of what I listen to. But I don't listen to much CCM because I don't generally find it fitting for the greatness of the God found in Scripture. Many of what the modern generation calls "hymns" which are really gospel songs from the early 20th century are the same way. They are cheesy and trite.

But consider it this way: You can see a great song to a contemporary arrangement, and sing the same song to no instrumentation, or to a piano only, and people will say the first is great worship and the second is boring. Why? Because we associate worship with the emotions that are evoked, and those emotions are generally evoked by music, not by the intellect in the theology. That's dangerous if not destructive.

We need a more robust theology of music in our modern church, and a steady diet of CCM is mindnumbing in that regard.

 

I am not sure you are in the position to judge whether it was positive or not in the lives of others.

I can say that in my life I have been positively impacted by their music. I find it very encouraging.

You are certainly welcome to share a different opinion, I just do not think you or anyone else is in the position to judge whether the impact in my life or the lives of others has been positive or not.

 

I have been positively impacted by CC as well. They music encourages me in my walk with Christ to end my day knowing that my heart was true and right. And their music also has impacted me greatly regarding grace and what it means in daily life.

 

I mostly like the older baptist hymal songs but I went to a CC concert and was very impressed with it and would listen to their music any time. It was very spritual and we all need more of that.

thats my story and I'm sticking to it!!!!!:wavey:

**Becky**

 

This is exactly my point. It is what I said. I am not prepared to say that anyone has been positively impacted by it.

Here's what I said: I am not sure that anyone here has been positively impacted. There's no doubt that there has been impact. Has it been "positive" in the sense that the Bible would argue for? Without more information, I can't really determine that satisfactorily for myself.

I will let that stand and assume that you are agreeing with me.

 

Now you have had at least two people share with you the positive impact of CC on their lives.

I will let that stand and assume that you are agreeing with me.