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Categories of Truth 2004

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Squire Robertsson, May 19, 2003.

  1. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I took the following from Pastor David Innes' (senior pastor of Hamilton Square Baptist Church, San Francisco for twenty-five years) series What is a Fundamentalist? I hope these printed materials will help us as we discuss matters here. Pastor Innes refers to them as "Columns" as he had accompanying his speaking.


    1. Very Clear: To deny these truths is to deny the meaning of words. Such doctrines would include: the Virgin Birth, the Blood Atonement, the Bodily Resurrection, the Deity of Christ, etc.
    2. Logical Conclusions: These truths are drawn by inference from Category 1. Such truths would include: Immersion=Baptism, anything else is just getting wet; the form of church government congregational vis presbyterian; standards in music, etc.
    3. Informed and Uninformed opinions: Such matters come from one's own personal walk and study. These would include the Textual questions, Sunday Schools, Head Covering for Women, etc.
    4. Petty, personal preferences: Such matters would include: robed choirs, church dinners, etc.
    I in no way have sought to be exhaustive in my examples for the different categories. And many will want to move these examples (and some of them are mine) around.

    Hoping to shed more light than heat,
    Keith

    [ November 02, 2004, 03:19 PM: Message edited by Squire Robertsson ]
     
    #1 Squire Robertsson, May 19, 2003
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit New Member

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    ...an excellent subject to ponder, thanks.
     
  3. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Which category of truth do the "categories of truth" fall under? :cool: :D
    Just kidding, it is an interesting concept and might better serve discussion than merely having fact vs opinion.
     
  4. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Some interesting thoughts.
     
  5. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith New Member

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    I agree with the attempt, but I think I would suggest some different categories, ones that I learned from Walter Martin and adapted slightly:

    Essential: These are things that if you deny, you're not Christian. These are things such as monotheism, diety of Christ, virgin birth, bodily ressurrection, etc. (roughly the "very clear" above).

    Very Important: These might be called "aberrant" if they are denied, and would include things that if denied, would not necessarily qualify as a heresy, but would likely prevent us from keeping fellowship.

    Peripheral: These are roughly equivalent to the "petty, personal preferences" above. Choir robes, etc.

    The key, of course, is defining what fits into the middle category. One person's essential is another's aberrant and another's peripheral. But biblically, I think most of them would fall out fairly clearly. The example I always give of "very important" is the discussion of transubstantiation, consubstantiation, and symbolic. Most would say that those who are wrong on this issue would still be Christian, but we would not necessarily fellowship with them.

    On another subject, what is true is always true. Truth is true for everyone. There are no truths that are relative, i.e., true for one person and false for another person (in the same sense).
     
  6. David Ekstrom

    David Ekstrom New Member

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    The idea is more than helpful; its essential. I would agree with humblesmith's last comment: truth is absolute. This thread caught my eye because I thought that it was advocating a kind of relativistic view of truth. (Should've known better.) I prefer the 4-part division over the 3-part division because it allows for a more nuanced approach to issues.
    Ok, the challenge is what we sort where. But having such a scheme in mind is a huge step in the right direction. We can then discuss which "bin" we put the particular claim in instead of coming to a deadend with the all-or-nothing mentality to which we so often succumb.
     
  7. ChrisTag

    ChrisTag New Member

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    I like the classifications. I heard a similar classification in a sermon called "Die, Fight, Fuss". There are some things we should die for, some we should fight about, and some that we might fuss about, but we certainly wouldn't die or fight for them.
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    HSBC's computer wrenches put together the original Sunday evening messages:

    http://www.hamiltonsquare.net/sermons.htm

    I am re-opening this thread for a bit. If you really want to debate it, I or you can start a separate thread.
     
    #8 Squire Robertsson, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  9. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I went to the link that Squire gave and I found it to be interesting especially the charts. They, for the most part (I don't agree with everything) are a very good break down of truth -vs- preference.
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I've been known to refer to a position as Cat 2.5
     
  11. humblethinker

    humblethinker New Member

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    Regarding the OP, This seems like the essence of modern day fundamentalism. Creating a chart of issues, behaviors, preferences and then being more concerned our lives are lived in accordance with the list/chart than we are according tothe Bible. Nice try but just too distracting.
     
  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Actually, the charts and the messages they accompany endeavor to clarify matters. Too many place their personal opinions whether well informed or not on the same level as the clear teaching of Scripture. Also, you have to remember these messages were first preached in San Francisco, hardly a bedrock of Fundamentalism.
     
  13. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Looks like the address of the series What is a Fundamentalist? and the printed materials have moved. I think I found them and linked them. If these are the wrong ones, Brother Robertsson, please feel free to fix them. Thanks.
     
  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Thanks, I edited the OP to reflect the change.
     
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