Catholics Deny Christ

Two thoughts:

1. is your husband really dead? "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living"

2. Why do you ask other people to go ask the King to do something for you, when you "can ask the Lord myself"? </font>[/QUOTE]Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

When He said that, He had not yet defeated death. He has now! He is God of BOTH the dead AND the living!

God Bless.

 

AdoptedByGod,

Are you showing your true colors?

You support one statement, and when I prove that it never said what you claimed, you just move down the last. You never concede that you made a mistake; you just move right down the list to the next attack.

At least now I have proof of how you work.

God bless,

Grant

 

By the way,

Do we not stand sinful and sorrowful in each other's midst when in the congregation we confess our need for God's mercy? What's the theological problem with doing that around Mary?

Second, "hear and answer me" means "hear my prayer," and the answer is to take that prayer to her Son, Jesus Christ, the source of all grace and life.

God bless,

Grant

 

Carson, thats not whats taking place in the prayer above. Read the parts I bolded...The pope is asking MARY to provide the things he asks for...

Yeah, and how do you think Catholics think Mary provides? By praying for those things!!!!! Anything Mary does is because such is done in and through Jesus Christ her divine son, who is the one mediator between God and man. Period.

So.. enough of this "You Catholics are making Mary into Jesus!" misunderstanding hoopla.

The claim is that Mary can do nothing apart from her divine son in the same way as we can do nothing apart from our divine brother.

 

No where so don't ask me to, because I can't.

It is clear from these and other prayers, that Mary is the center of your prayers. So enough of that "we don't worship Mary" hoopla already. You aren't fooling us with your terminology.

~Lorelei

 

Hi Lorelei,

I worship God and God alone. Mary is infinitely lesser than the infinite Godhead, which alone is worthy of worship.

God bless,

Carson

 

You have posted three prayers, and by this, you make the blanket statement that Mary is the center of our prayers?

I'm afraid not. In fact, my prayers to Mary have Christ at their center.

God bless,

Grant

 

Lorelei:

Mary is not God. Catholics know this.


God Bless

 

Hi Adopted,

You posted The Memorare, which is one of my favorite Marian prayers.

The Memorare is based off of the Sub Tuum Praesidium ("Under Your Protection"), which is a Marian prayer from the early 3rd century:

"We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God; despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen."

At that time, Christians were being battered by the persecution of the Roman Emperors Septimius Severus (193-211) and Decius (249-251) and decimated by deportations. Therefore, it was all too natural for such a short spontaneous prayer to rise constantly to their lips. From them, it passed on to other Christians, especially in their worship.

In the Coptic Rite of the third century, for instance, the Sub Tuum was part of the liturgical office of Christmas. At the end of that century, Patriarch Theonas of Alexandria built the first real church for local Christians (who prior to that time were accustomed to assemble in homes and cemeteries) and called it the Church of St Mary Virgin and Mother of God. Thus, it is evident that Alexandrian Christians were already calling Mary the "Mother of God" in the third century - long before St Athanasius, who was usually credited with coining the phrase.

God bless,

Carson

 

If she is lesser, then EVERY name that has been given to her that has the prefix 'co' in it, needs to go OUT the window. Cuz 'co' means EQUAL.

God Bless

 

Are you asking me?

My husband is right next to me!

 

I just thought I'd confirm a point made by ABG regarding Mary.

True Devotion of Mary
This book has the Imprimi Potest, Hinil Obstat, and Imprimatur. It contains no erros in regards to Catholic teaching, in other words.

From my copy, pg. 16:

"For Mary is infinitely below her Son, who is God."

Of course, this book goes into great deal in espousing the deep Catholic beliefs regarding Mary. I just thought I'd show how believing that, we still believe that Mary is infinitely below her Son on the totem pole, becasue HE is God, and SHE is not.

God bless,

Grant

 

Didn't someone say that Mary was Jesus's wife?

 

Excellent point and I would say yes it is possible.

You can say it all you want, the actions of the prayers listed above reveal that even the Pope regards Mary as someone who can actively move beyond the realm of human capabilities and intervene in our behalf without needing to go through Christ.

Whether you want to admit it or not, that puts Mary in Christ's role and therefore, whether you admit it or not, is makes her at the very least His equal.

~Lorelei

 

Same book (True Devotion to Mary), of which the Pope, whom you mentioned, strongly endorses:

"When we read then in the writings of Sts. Bernard, Bernadine, Bonaventure and others that in Heaven and on earth everything, even God Himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God has been well pleased to give her is so great that it seems as if she had the same power as God; and that her prayers and petitions are so powerful with God that they always pass for commandments with His Majesty, who never resists the prayer of His dear Mother, because she is always humble and conformed to His will."

Does she really issue commands, or is it merely the fact that she is so attuned to God's divine will that nothing she asks will ever be in opposition to it?

Like that or not, it is not what you are saying that we believe in regards to her.

God bless,

Grant

 

"Co" does not mean equal.

"Co" means "with".

Very big difference.

 

Mary is not God, nor have I ever believed that Mary was God, or that she has God-like powers. All of her "powers" or intercession she only has because the Father has imparted them to her. This is made QUITE clear in Catholic theology. Just as Peter and Paul and the Apostles performed miracles after Jesus resurrection, it was GOD working THROUGH them that such things were possible. Anything Mary does is only possible because God Himself ordained it. Therefore, no matter how much she can do, the fact that she can do it is utterly dependant on God allowing it to be so. Therefore, as creation, not Creator, she is infinitely below her Son, who is God Himself.

God bless,

Grant