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Cause and Effect/Conditions of Salvation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 22, 2010.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    And if you are going to make such contrasts like this then you paint your method of being save no differently than that of a Hindu, and I am quite serious about that. A Hindu must work to attain salvation. He must please his god (or in some cases gods). If he doesn't please his god he cannot attain nirvana (sanctification), which for you would be a failure, and the end result would be the inability of entering heaven.
    It is not Christ that saves you HP (in your theology). Like the Hindu it is your works. You have a works-based salvation. That is sad. It is pitiful.

    I am not a Calvinist, but I do believe that Jesus saves. John 14:6 makes it abundantly clear he is the only one that can save. "I am the way...no man comes to the Father but By ME." It is not by works; it is by Jesus Christ, and him alone. Salvation is all of God or it is no salvation at all.

    Either his blood was sufficient enough to pay the penalty of all our sins (past present and future), or he was a complete failure, a fraud, and a liar. There are only those two choices. Which do you choose?
     
    #121 DHK, Apr 28, 2010
  2. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: What is pitiful DHK is that you would stoop so low in flat contradiction to the truth on a Christian discussion board. Your comments are far from the truth and unbecoming a believer in Christ. Your lies make a mockery of the rules of this forum and Christian charity.
     
    #122 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It was a comparison HP. There is no need to be offended. Salvation is all of God. It is either all of grace or all of works. It can't be both. See Romans 11:6. It plainly tells you the same thing. Let me also repeat part of my last post:
     
    #123 DHK, Apr 28, 2010
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Your so called 'comparison' is nothing short of a low down worthless lie.
     
    #124 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 28, 2010
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: For the sake of others on this discussion list, I will respond to this comment. DHK in reality says absolutely nothing here as to the ‘sufficiency’ of the blood of Christ that I and most if not all others on this list would clearly attest to. What is at stake is NOT the ‘sufficiency’ of the blood of Christ as DHK actually speaks to, but rather was it a ‘literal payment’ in a forensic sense of the word? Was it ‘sin specific’ in its scope at the moment it was shed? Was there a specific amount of blood that covered every specific sin in the sense of a transaction, a payment specific to a specific sin(s) made, covering all past present and future sins? Absolutely not. If that was true, and Christ died not for our sins only but for the sins of the entire world, all would of necessity be saved or the blood of Christ would appear to be less than effective to accomplish its ends. If Christ literally paid for the sins of the world in a literal payment sense, it would be absurd for God to punish anyone when His blood had already literally paid the price. It would be holding man accountable for that which Christ’s blood should have already covered, an unscriptural and absurd concept at best.

    The atonement made was indeed 'sufficient' for the sins of the whole world, but is not made 'effective' in the lives of the sinner until the sinner fulfills the conditions to repent and exercise faith. Even then, the sins that are covered are ‘sins that are past’ NOT future infractions of God’s law according to Scripture. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
     
    #125 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 28, 2010
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely correct!

    Mat 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    1Jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

    Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Matt 12:31)

    False. All sin has been atoned for except for the sin of unbelief. Unbelief will not be forgiven.

    Romans 3:25 says nothing of sins of one's future NOT covered. This is conjecture, going beyond what is written.

    :jesus:
     
    #126 steaver, Apr 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    If Jesus didn't atone for my future sins (after the moment of salvation) does that mean that He has to be crucified again? Where does the blood come from to atone for my future sins?
     
    #127 Amy.G, Apr 28, 2010
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    #128 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 28, 2010
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Here is the definition from the American Tract and Society Dictionary
    Note: "It is covering...that by a Divine propitiation the sinner is covered from the just anger of God."
    Propitiation means satisfaction in the legal sense of the term. The legal demands of God's laws were satisfied when the blood was shed, thereby atoning for our sins, or making the payment that God required.
     
    #129 DHK, Apr 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  10. Mississippi John

    Mississippi John Member

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    I love God,The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, All mankind, and the Scriptures.....in that order...so help me GOD.
     
    #130 Mississippi John, Apr 28, 2010
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1. It is not a worthless comparison.
    2. It is not a lie.
    3. It is the truth.

    Every religion of the world (Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, and even the RCC), all have one thing in common--they believe you can get to heaven (or their concept of it) by works.

    Biblical Christianity stands alone, different from all other religions in that it is not a religion of works. It is a living faith wrought by the grace of God, initiated by faith alone in God, and kept by Christ alone unto the end without any merit by mankind.

    That is not Calvinism; it is Biblical salvation that is taught in the Bible and was taught long before Calvin was ever born; long before Augustine was ever born.
     
    #131 DHK, Apr 28, 2010
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