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Chairman of the Deacons

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Aug 15, 2010.

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  1. teaches it is a requirement to have such a position

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. teaches it is prohibited to have such a position

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  3. recommends the position

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. Theory of the position may be construed

    2 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. is silent on the subject

    33 vote(s)
    78.6%
  6. Other answer

    4 vote(s)
    9.5%
  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    When you have two or more people, there must be one in charge do be in order
     
  2. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    This is an interesting subject, and an important one.

    Although as a pastor, I can see a “powerful” deacon as a possible danger:
    I also see such a man as a great benefit to their Church.

    I answered, “theory of the position may be construed” in the poll, and here is the Scripture that I use.....
    1 Timothy 3:8-13
    V.8 ¶ Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
    V.9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
    V.10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being [found] blameless.
    V.11 Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
    V.12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
    V.13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    A deacon and a pastor have similar qualification, for a purpose.

    A deacon, is kind of like a US Senator: They are around for years and years, possibly through many administrations, therefore they gain more and more trust with God’s people in their Church.

    When I see those words in V.13, “and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.”, I am reminded of all the Baptist Churches that I have heard about over the years, who were DESTROYED, by unscrupulous and unGodly pastors, who would either destroy the Churches doctrine or destroy the Church itself:
    (On one occasion, running all the people off, and selling the Churches contents and property and skipping town!)

    Now this may not happen in SBC Churches, because of the hierarchy most SBC Churches have, “above the pastor”(which I see as unBiblical), yet it protects the Church.

    But I see God’s plan in protecting the Church as being strong Godly deacons, who will exercise “great boldness”, in a dire situation, where an ungodly pastor is out of control, and kick him out.

    Over the years, I have reminded my Church to kick me out, if I ever get away from the Word of God, and I see the office of deacon, as having this responsibility!
     
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Off topic, but their is no hierarchy in the SBC and BTW SB churches are independent!

    and here are the differences between a SB church and a IBF

    I was a member of a SB church that was "stolen" by a IBF of a certain Bap group, and there wasn't much that our local association could do about it.

    Otherwise, you had a very interesting post, thanks for the input

    Salty
     
  4. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    can you give some scripture?
     
  5. dh1948

    dh1948 Member
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    Nothing gets my dander up more than the role deacons have assumed in the average SBC church. What happened that changed the role from servanthood to church boss? Deny it if you will, but that is exactly how the deacon "board" is perceived (and operates) in the average SBC church. In these churches, the deacons must approve the proposed budget each year before it can be presented to the church for approval. Often they must approve the hiring of new staff before the church can approve them. They are often "watchdogs" over the pulpit. To me, it is the tail wagging the dog.

    Within the deacon "body" (my preferred description), there is usually a couple of deacons who are patriarchs in the church. They have been around for years, and they never hesitate to flex their muscles to get their way. At the same time, these are often the most faithful men in the church in terms of attendance and giving. The majority of the church holds them in high esteem because of their faithful attendance and their long-time standing as bedrock members of the church. No matter how long a pastor stays at a church, he signs his death warrant when he goes against their wishes.

    I say all of this to emphasize that the role of deacons in the average SBC church is light years away from the model of NT deacons.

    By the way, about a hundred years ago, I read a book written by an ABA pastor, L. D. Foreman. If I recall correctly, his argument was that deacons were no longer needed in the church. Maybe some of you ABA pastors read it. I wish I could remember what all he said. He was castigated by many of his fellow pastors.

    Okay, I am off my soapbox for now.
     
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    In my church, it's the Deacon chairman--that's me. Lemme tell you, I couldn't wait until we got a new pastor so I could shed those responsibilities. I gained a new respect for pastors.
     
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Our church has had three pastors in the last 27 years, and I was chairman of the deacons at the time. With each new arrival, I met with the pastor. Here are some of the things I told him:

    1. We are not a board, we are servants. We don't boss anybody.
    2. You do not work for the deacons. The deacons work for you. We are your helpers.
    3. I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt on any direction you feel the Lord wants you to take the church.
    4. If I disagree with you, you and I will be the only ones who know it. And I will not criticize you publicly or behind your back.
    5. The deacons will try to build a hedge around you to protect you from other members who think they ought to be boss.

    The relationship between the deacons and the pastor has been sweet and harmonious. The relationship between the congregation and the pastor has been sweet and harmonious. The harmony and unity among the members has been sweet.

    We have had several folks who said they were drawn to our church because of the love they saw exhibited among the people.

    Do I get any credit for any of this? Nope. We learned those lessons from hard experience. Those of us who went through a church fight 30 years ago vowed we'd never be part of another one.
     
    #27 Tom Butler, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2010
  8. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Actually you are a board and you do run the church based on what you posted here that you told the Pastor. :BangHead:
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    It might seem that way, and we still have a lot of members who see us as a board. And it is true, the congregation generally looks to the deacons for some leadership. So deacons have power and influence. But they must, repeat must, have a proper view of their role in the life of the church. And it is not to boss the pastor around.

    My conversation with the new pastor is to reassure him about what we're about. Often new pastors come on the field wondering if they're dealing with a board or a body.

    Most of the heavy lifting in our church life is done by the committees, not the deacons. There is no need for the deacons to duplicate the work of the Finance Committee, the House and Grounds Committee or the Nominating Committee.

    Our deacons see one of our roles is as peacemakers. Sometimes that peacemaking takes the form of protecting our pastor from someone who wants to run the church or exercise disproportionate influence, or is generally a troublemaker. You want to mess with my pastor. You have to get past the deacons first.
     
    #29 Tom Butler, Aug 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2010
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Then you are a board. It is like the person who says that they are anti-abortion except for incest or rape. The truth is the person is pro-abortion with limits. They are just not pro-abortion on demand. The same is here with you and the deacons. You may want to make the claim that you are not a board, but you are and even more. YOU are running the church, not Christ. That,makes your church non-biblical since you stand against the callings of God. Deacons were never to have power in the church which you clearly claim to have.
     
  11. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Some like to read anti Christ into anything people purpose to do in the local church. A deacon's Board does look after the operations of the church as overseers, including the direction the pastor is taking.

    We could have prevented a lot of liberal infusion some years back if the deacons had been doing their job.

    I enjoyed and appreciated deacons asking questions of me during my pastoral role. This is not an attempt to dictate, nor to control me as pastor. It is their duty to protect the whole of the church's body. Hurray for good deacons.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    That's just it. It is NOT their duty. Their duty is to serve tables. While it is true that the church today is in rebellion to the Lord's word and it wants to do things its way, but it still makes an un-biblical church and we all see what has happened to the church because of it. I can understand whay a church Pastor might love this arrangement. The fact is that it is HIS responsibility to protect the church ands he can simply blame the deacons if all does not go well.
     
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    We are living in modern times and not NT times. We must adjust to the needs of the time.

    I like my deacons taking the pulpit from time to time. I like my deacons going door-to-door on visitation. I like my deacons taking leadership roles in various areas including finances, sunday school,missions and the building itself, and not pouring tea in a cup, wiping the tables and polishing the modern-day,,,not NT times, pews, pulpit and Lord's table. Oh, they do serve the Lord's able.

    We also had a caretaker (may have been a deacon), and ushers (may have been a deacon, but not likely).

    You can call me as unbiblical as you like, but it has worked in our 500 churches for more than 60 years now without complications.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I agree that their duty is to serve,

    BUT

    is it prohibited for them to preform other duties? If not prohibited then the church is NOT
    "in rebellion to the Lord's word"

    The Bible:
    A) Requires (commands)
    B) recommends
    C) is silent
    D) prohibits
     
  15. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I've been sitting here thinking "how could anything I said lead you to that conclusion?" I must have done a terrible job explaining my view.

    Then, I realized that you have filtered my view through your own criterion. It is, deacons wait tables. Anything more than that is unbiblical.

    Lemme try this one more time. Our deacons do not run the church. We are servants of the Lord Jesus Christ. And we are servants of our congregation. The deacons I serve with have one vote at business meeting, just as any member.

    We have some deacons who are so spiritually mature and so wise, that when they speak, people listen carefully. When the deacons speak collectively, people listen carefully. That doesn't make us bosses, nor does it make us a board.

    We do wield the knives at our periodic watermelon cuttings, so we do serve tables. It's just that our congregation has charged us with other responsibilities as well.
     
  16. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    I could be misinterpreting Acts 6:1-3 incorrectly, but it seems to me that the original deacons weren't appointed to run the church as they do now. Nor were they appointed to watch over the pastor and make sure he is doing what he should. They were appointed to serve the people and to take care of the widows in need. Acts 6:1-3 reads:

    "And in those days, when the number of the disciples multiplied, there arose a murmuring among the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration."

    "Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God and serve tables."

    "Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business."

    So, they were appointed to "serve tables", and to look after the widows. They were also to be "of good report" (or have a good reputation), and "filled with the Holy Ghost" (Spirit-lead) and full of "wisdom". Nothing there is mentioned about them running the church or the pastor as they seem to do (or try to do) today. Nothing there is said about them being "officers of the church", but they were chosen to be "servants" and nothing more--servants to help the pastor and the people.

    OK, so on with the lambasting of this interpretation.
     
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