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Featured Christian Gnosticism - Hidden Treasures?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Could it be as simple as they were right to hold to those views?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Adam was under the Covenant of Works before the fall, and under that of Grace after His fall, so something really did change in regards to Him and His relationship to God!
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. Because those views were not actually in scripture.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They are, its just that you really fail to understand what happened in the fall and how it affected us!
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The problem is not one of understanding but one of interpretation. I understand how both views exist. I made a conscious decision to restrict my interpretation.

    As you know, I'm sure, systematic theology uses biblical theology as one source and develops larger doctrines incorporating scripture, reason, natural evidences, etc. Your position is a product of systematic theology (as is mine). But I believe the more we can restrict man and the more we allow what is actually stated in the biblical text dictate the end doctrine, the better we will be.
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but both historical and biblical theology would have us driven back that there was a real change to Adam when he fell, and that we also are now in His image!
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. That is not correct.

    The nature of Adam's fall is a product of Systematic Theology. We can look to Historic Theology and explore views on both sides. But it is not Biblical Theology. For it to be so you would have to find it specifically stated in one passage. That does not exist. It is systematically derived.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The concept of Adam being the head representative before God of all those who are fallen and still in their sins is explained and outlined by Paul! Especially in his contrasting the first and the second Adam...
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is exactly the point of this thread. Thank you.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as all spiritually died in Adam, and now those saved have been made spiritually alive again in Christ!
     
  11. Brooksntea

    Brooksntea New Member

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    I’m new to this thread, I didn’t go through it all, but I have to ask this. When you say “Christian Gnosticism” you don’t mean of course “the Spiritual side of the scripture” do you? In my thinking you can take the Song of Songs. On one level you can say it’s a love poem between a man and a wife. If you dig into older Puritan writers they wouldn’t take it that way but it’s about Christ and the Church. So I believe there are scriptures where you can read it face value but then there are scriptures that seem when preached have a spiritual side. In the Westminster Confession, chapter VIII (Of Christ the Mediator), paragraph 4 it says:

    “IV. This office the Lord Jesus did most willingly undertake; which that He might discharge, He was made under the law, and did perfectly fulfil it; endured most grievous torments immediately in His soul, and most painful sufferings in His body; was crucified, and died, was buried, and remained under the power of death, yet saw no corruption. On the third day He arose from the dead, with the same body in which He suffered, with which also he ascended into heaven, and there sits at the right hand of His Father, making intercession, and shall return, to judge men and angels, at the end of the world.”

    For the first line ending with “undertake” it has this for the scripture:

    Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

    Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

    So we see that it wasn’t David’s voice saying that but it was Jesus’ voice. There are other verses the Puritans brought up with their “spiritual” meaning. Do you agree on that?

    I certainly don’t agree on Gnosticism where a few people have a higher knowledge and you have to join their club to find out but I do believe the scriptures have a spiritual side. If it didn’t why are we reading the Bible at all?
     
    #71 Brooksntea, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I don't mean the spiritual side of scripture (we need more of that).

    What I mean are those who believe the truth of Scripture is what they see implied rather than writen. These "truths" are sometimes presented as the more "mature" understanding.
     
  13. Ran the Man

    Ran the Man Active Member

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    there are already many Manichean Gnostics on this site. They're called Calvinists.
     
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