Christianity and War

Does it have anything to do with a state run press ? How many people critical of hamas get public airwave time, like those critical of our own govt' ? And don't lie to me, because you are not the only one who talks with folks, abroad.

And you say you don't support Hamas, but yet you are much more vocal about U.S. policy than their's.

 

Amen :applause:

 

The Arab Christian minister who spoke was not supporting Hamas. He was telling why so many Palestinians support Hamas and voted for them and not for the PLO.

You are right, there are Christians who talk with others when they are abroad. I was simply asking someone a question as to whether they had ever talked with any Christian Arabs. So far I have not received any reply.

Those I have talked with are all Christians from the Mid-East, primarily from Israel, Lebanon and Palestine. I have not had the privlidge of talking with any Christian from Iraq. I would really like to do so.

Where did the "don't lie to me" come from?

I know more about our policy than that of Hamas, and we are living here and not there.

 

The "shock & awe" that everyone loves to ridicule was actually an attempt to decapitate the regime. A great deal of effort was put into avoiding civilian deaths, and confining casualties to government officials.

Continuing sanctions and ‘keeping Saddam in a box’ are what most anti-war folks wanted to continue, yet as you point out, that policy was responsible for as many deaths as actual warfare.

I think that mentality went away in about 1968. In it’s place, some people are consumed with the notion of American wickedness instead.

 

The article is trash not worth a point by point response!

 

No, it is no consolation to me. I am sorry for it.

Maybe so. But did the Japanese imperial govt. charge their commanders after the Nanking, Hong Kong, Luzon, Port Blair massacres, and the many instances when prisoners were abused and murdered early in the war, before they were under occupation? They did not. - LINK

You're not an enemy. I never hinted that you are.

 

American history has nothing to do with Christianity Neither do English, German, or French history. Our country has to decide what it needs to do in difficult times but that's a political decision. We would hope that there are some ethics involved but many times that not the case. Yes, war involving God's chosen people is supported in the Old Testament. The new testament doesn't support war or violence of any kind. Baptists used to use the Bible to support slavery. Now some want to use it to support war. They make up theories about "just wars." Where in the New Testament is a just war defined? The truth is that Jesus told us to love our enemies.

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also.

How can you twist Christ's command to say that Christians should support war?

 

Christians DO love their enemies. We send missionaries to dangerous places to spread the gospel.

Christians should approach war like King David did. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. Christ was not talking aboiut warfare, he was talking to the Jews about submission as a picture of him, to the Romans.

But I mostly think, if a Christian is going to engage in a discussion about this war, he's going to be truly objective about how this war started, and who were the original cheerleaders.

CTB, the people of Palestine elected Hamas. I really don't care why. When you elect a terrorist orginization to represent you, you really can't complain about how the world reacts.

I know about the Israeli pullout. I know how the people of Palestine looted & ruined the assetts left to them. I know how the people of Palestine tore down the high-tech greenhouses that would have employed & supported millions. Frankly, I'm tired of reading about them. Israel has a right to defend herself. It's not her fault the PA authorities live large, and keep the general population in squalor. Lies are why the Palestinians suffer. Lies from their own leaders. That's what you get for electing them.

 

I suggest two possibilities for frequents accusations of "you lie" or "you are a liar", or "don't lie to me"

1. The person making the accusation has the solid evidence an obedient Christian would have to have before tabling such an accusation;

2. The person making the accusation has been handed his hat in a discussion, both scripturally or otherwise, or has no other way to carry his point than to divert attention from the weakness of his own position by suggesting that the other is lying.

Let the readers decide which is the case......

 

Good, wise advice. Thanks.

 

I have seen CTB, and you, play loose with facts to support their decision. Let the readers decide if I am wrong about that.

I haven't been handed any hat, certainly not by either of you, so that kinda falls flat, as well.

I am more than confident how the true students of scripture will decide.

 

If so, why did not respond to my challenge I issued in the "Who the world in general and the Muslim world supports for Commander and Chief"?

In that thread you had written:

l responded with this:

My challenge still stands.....

 

Andre, I won't discuss the bible with someone who treats it like you do.

So it's going to be standing, a long time. And I could not care less what that makes me, in your eyes.

 

How convenient a response.......

 

So since when is it our business to go around the world "attempting to decapitate regimes" of other nations? And despite our government's best efforts, the actions of "shock and awe" (not to mention other "surgical bombings") resulted in many dead civilians...er..."collateral damage". Are all these civilian deaths really "worth it" in our nation's efforts (whether sanctions or wars) to remake the rest of the world in our own image?

Where do you get your idea of "most" anti-war groups supported this? Do you have any statistics to back this up?
Other than that, I'd agree with you that our imperial sanctions resulted in roughly has been deaths as our neo-con imperial war...er.."liberation of Iraq"..umm.."Global war on Terror".


In response to my remarks about the myth of American exceptionalism, you said..

Sadly that mentality is alive and well among the neocons and many of their red-state-fascist supporters. (Just think "Project for the New American Century")

Perhaps some people are so "consumed". It could be that many others are troubled that, after the "Cold war", the world's lone super power, as basically controlled by the neocons and other interventionists, has been looking for new enemies to fight, engaging in one pre-emptive war (Iraq) and itching to start another (Iran). This may be the way to fulfil the Orwellian dream of perpetual peace through perpetual war, but that's not what most of us want. Rather, most of us love this country and want to see it return to it's founding principles as expressed in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and in GW's warning against foreign entanglements.

 

About 500,000. The war on terror hasn't come close to the deaths the U.N. backed sanctions in Iraq.

That is the real evil.

 

While this may not be true of posters in this thread, there seems little doubt that evangelical Christians tend to see some kind of Biblical mandate to support Israel. I submit that this is grounded in error, and reveals a failure to discern what I think Paul is saying in 2 Corinthians 1:20:

20For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ

For reasons I will not elaborate upon, Paul sees all the promises made to Israel - including promises of land - as being somehow fulfilled in Jesus. There are therefore no particular promises that remain unfufilled. So while many see the formation of Israel in 1948 as a sign that God is fulfilling His promises to Israel, I suspect that Paul would dispute this.