Christians and divorce.

Sorry, Irwin, but you'd have to go to a very far stretch of the imagination to think that.

What the reality is that so many try their best to just brush aside, is the ramifications experienced to divorce, and try to act as if they have some divine right to marry as they please and divorce at will.

There is the making of the vow of Holy Matrimony, but I'm afraid we live in a day when anything holy is somehow denigrated as being legalistic or phaisaical, but then God has His way of demanding holiness of us, and then we have comprimising liberals who feel they can determine the letter of the Law of God by what they "feel" is right, thereby negating much of Scripture that deals specifically with divorce.

What is truly depressing is those who call names, make insinuations about other's character in some outlandish attempt to try and refute what they are unlearned about Scripture.

Their ignorance somehow denotes some thopught up right to attack another Christian in their "justifiable" means.

 

Excuse me Ralph, but it seems you are getting your feathers ruffled for no reason. I have a few questions for you . . .
1) What are the "ramifications experienced to divorce" you are talking about?
2) Who are you insinuating is taking liberties with "divine rights?"
3) Can you show me "Holy Matrimony" in the Bible? What is "Holy" about it?
4) Their ignorance somehow denotes some thopught up right to attack another Christian in their "justifiable" means. What in the world does this mean?

You need to lighten up friend. No one is attacking you, just disagreeing with you.

[ September 24, 2004, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: MTA ]

 

1 having attained a "spot" or mark for that divorce and coupled with a hardheart

2 anyone who has the audacity to think they can marry and then divorce as if God negates His commandments

3 If you don't understand "Holy Matrimony", please, DON'T EVER get married! Beasides, what other kind of matrimony is there? There isn't!

4 I am so sorry you choose to be ignorant, but then your statements follow:

"You need to lighten up friend. No one is attacking you, just disagreeing with you."

I'm afarid you're another child of contention that only wants to argue

 

(posted by POR.)
What is truely depressing is those who call names,
make insinuations about other's character----

POR, I agree with that; I'm just wondering if mabe we should examine themself, and see if that is what is happening inwith myself. I don't know if you are throwing your rock at me, or someone else. You need since you directed your postr at me, I suppose you are talking about me.Since you think I am such bad person; please pray for me. You may be perfect, and don't need prayers; but I believe I will just pray for you anyway; you know, just in case you are not perfect.
With the love Jesus gave me.
With love of GOD the Father,
With love of GOD the Son,
With love of GOD the Holy Spirit,
All three make one.
irwin

 

Sorry, Irwin, but I only responded to your statement that I somehow seemed to think Jesus' Blood wasn't payment enough for ALL sin, in so many of your words.

I am NOT throwing rocks at anyone. I have only offered reason as the Word of God gives all men.

I don't think you're a bad person, I know you're "bad" enough to need to be saved, but whether or not you are is between you and God, I'm NOT even hinting at judging that at all.

Hebrews 13:4 explicitly shows us that marriage is honourable above all things, (the bed is defiled with adultry), and whoremongers and adulterers, God WILL judge. Never once does Hebrews say anything about before or after one is saved, and since the order of Hebrews is this following chapter 9,and since divorce is the breaking of the vow to God, there are many ramifications to the breaking of a marriage.

We all need to consider our sanctity and our morals a little closer, the penalty for divorce is forgivable, but the ramifications are not somehow just done away; lives are effected all around the divorce, God knows more about that than any of us ever really will. I believe that is why He inspired Hebrews as our mandate to avoid the things that lead up to marriage and the divorce, not ever to be taken so lightly as nearly all men do today, that is the reason the divorce rate is so high, men have made it easier to get a divorce, but God hasn't changed the way he sees it.

 

Perhaps what people need is more leeway to work out their own problems rather than have to turn to a counselor every time their spouse looks at them cross eyed.
Being raised in a Christian family isn't as common as it used to be. Many couples enter into a marriage unsaved or with not so strong grips on their faith. More teaching on basic truths and how to apply them are needed. Homosexual marriage and other societal woes do not cause Christians to divorce, problems in the marriage cause Christians to divorce.
Perhaps people are under the impression that Christians divorce less than the world because there aren't a ton of divorced people a the church. A lot of that has to do with us being treated like the Christians everyone else runs over on their way to glory. Often, the same reason the marriage didn't work is the same reason we are tempted to leave the church. We don't like to feel like dirt all the time!
Gina

 

Perhaps, but the teaching and preaching is more needed than allowing more leaway for even more complicated marriages. The importance of marriage is not being taught, it is rather some sort of social expectation and a device of men these days, forgetting what marriage is all about; COMMITMENT.

 

I've read some of the posts regarding marriage and divorce. I have written in before, but this time want to say that I divorced my first husband "in the world" because he was totally infatuated with another woman, and despite years of pleading, he would not give her up. Neither of us were Christians. I remarried and soon afterwards the Lord brought me to Himself, and then my husband 3 years after. The point I want to now make is this :- I find that certain churches just will not accept us, as we are treated to be "living in sin". We have been married almost 27 years and my husband is my full-time carer, as I am chronically ill and disabled. I believe that all sin is forgiveable, by the blood of Christ, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. As someone pointed out Christ is the only sinless and Holy One.
The computer is a lifeline to me in my circumstances, and yet certain brothers choose not to correspond with me when they know that I was married "in the world" and divorced.
Would be glad to have any comments.
I am so thankful that the Lord is merciful, and that He also chose the woman at the well who had had 5 men, who were not even her husbands!
Sincerely, Rose

 

Rose, to put it simply, people who will not accept you into their "churches" are ignorant and cruel.
It's so easy to become disillusioned with Christianity when people act this way. Keep remembering that it's about Christ though, not those people and it will give you strength to deal with people like this without weakening your faith.
It does seem as if this attitude is prevalent in Baptist churches. I'm in a Baptist church now, but most likely will not take special effort to remain in one after I move from this are. To be quite frank, it's not worth the heartache.
Gina

 

Whew! Are you finished? Good grief! If you couldn't answer the questions, all you had to do was say so. I was not attacking you only trying to understand where you were coming from.

You have a good day.

 

Since my divorce I have been in churches where people looked down on me when they found out, but usually softened up a bit when they discovered the reasons for my divorce. I have heard about Baptist churches who will not accept divorced people at all. If they are trying to exclude sinners, they need to look inward. This is not at all what the church is about.
If there had been any choice at all, I would not have been divorced, but I am and that can't be changed
.
The church I am in now has never asked why I got divorced, although some people do know the reasons. I have been treated with respect and dignity and feel loved by all. One of the most loved and respected men in this church has been divorced and remarried. No one doubts his love of Christ and the church and non would ever speak ill of him. He has worked diligently for the Lord most of his 82 years and he loves the church he helped found.

I think that anyone who looks down on those of us who are divorced are questioning God's ability to forgive sin. Divorce is not something to be done lightly but neither is it the unpardonable sin. If someone is divorced and has repented, then who can say God has not forgiven. Those who were divorced and remarried before they became Christians were forgiven for all sins when they got saved. Remember the word Justified means: Just as if I'd never sinned. We don't need holier than thou folks to keep rehashing what God has already forgiven.

Divorce is never something to be proud of. Those of you who have never experienced it should be very thankful and pray you never find out.

 

I think that's sad, that a person is required to air their dirty laundry for peopel to stop looking their noses down. I've experienced that as well. My response is "my divorce was for a scriptural reason". They don't need to know the details.

Sad, that some will treat a person with bad credit or bankruptcy better than a divorced person.

 

John, the POINT is there are no scriptural "reasons" for divorce. The rea;ity of divorce is this; it is due to men having a hardheart.

But for EVERYONE, especially CERTAIN ones, I DO NOT LOOK DOWN ON ANYONE FOR HAVING BEEN DIVORCED!!!

All I've seen is some here like to jump down anybody's throat at a blink of an eye w/o EVER asking them how they treat those in these situations

I, as a pastor, do everything within my power to relate the truth about divorce and make it evident of the reprocussions.

Those here that have related there experiences for making the wrong choice for marriage and later being remarried are as equal as anyone in the eyes of God, it's just the fact that they have that divorce ever in their memory along with the detrimental "benefits" that go with it.

To keep the divorce rate lower we MUST start doing a better job of reaching our young people and be willing to let others cry on our shoulders when they are going thru something as traumatic as a divorce, BUT never hiding the truth in reality to what the eventual outcome will be, that is WHY God hateth the putting away.

MTA, I would thank you for NOT replying to me with such a terroristic mentality.

 

Rose, my mother was divorced from my father when I was less than a year old. She remarried a man who became my father by law (adoption). He had been divorced and had abandoned his two children from his first marriage. When my mother and father got saved and started going to church, there were certain things they were not allowed to do in the church. They weren't allowed to teach SS, my father wasn't allowed to usher, and neither one of them were allowed to be youth counsellors, though they had six of us in the churches youth programs. But, owning a business and having a large house, any time the church needed something they came to my parents. It really made me angry to see how churches treated divorced people. These people wanted a "church discount" because they went to church with my parents. These people wanted to use our home for youth parties, adult fellowships, Bible studies, etc., even though my parents weren't allowed to be involved in many things. My parents for years went along with this and said nothing. They were hurt, and so were we children. We saw the hypocrisy of the church and Christians. They were glad that GOD had forgiven and saved my parents, but they themselves had little forgiveness or love in their hearts. Not all the people in the church were like that. My parents business partners were actually the people who led my mother to the Lord, and they loved my family as their own. There were only a couple of other families that were like this.

I said all the above to say this. If the church is to be an example of Christ, I saw very little of it growing up in the attitudes of many. I did see the judgementalism, and I did see the hypocrisy. If you and your husband are saved and in church, you should be fully accepted. You should be fully loved by that church. You should be involved and allowed to be involved in some way, shape or fasion. If that church won't accept you as Christ would, I would recommend finding another Bible believing, Christ honoring church. God bless you.

AVL1984

 

There are some people on this forum who still hold the view that Christs words in Matt 5:32 are not grounds for divorce. Seems to me they are contradicting Christ here. The verse is below:

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Seems to me that there ARE grounds for a divorce.

AVL1984

 

AVL,

Please brother don't confuse the willfully ignorant with biblical facts. Especially if they have proved theirselves to be in the group that understands what you and I cannot understand unless we understood.

Bro Tony

 

LOL! I know just how you feel.

AVL1984

 

We're talking apples and oranges. There's no scriptural "reason" to lie, but it's "permissible" in some cases if it prevents someone from sinning, such as the case of Corrie Ten Boom and hiding Jews during WW2. Now, in regards to divorce, it's scripturally "permissible" in cases of adultery and abandonment.

I'd venture that it's most often due to sin, that is, the sin of the offensing spouse. Even then, I don't think the remaining spouse should (thogh they can) seek divorce immediately. However, when the remaining spouse is put in a position where he/she is enabling (and thus becoming a part in) the offending spouse's sin, then divorce is called for.

If you're not telling them that divorce is permissible, then you're not giving them the whole truth. However, you are correct that divorce has reprocussions. In cases where an offending spouse has committed adultery, or where a spouse has committed desertion (which includes types of abuse), and when the remaining spouse has sought all possible reasonable options, then the reprocussions of divorcing are often secondary compared to the reprocussions of remaining in the marriage.

True, but more importantly, we must also equip those who seek marriage better than we have. Many people enter a marriage without being completely equipped, and we must prepare them for marriage PRIOR TO entering into marriage.

 

Sorry to offend you Brother, but you are all riled up over nothing. I am not terrorizing you!

By the way, the comments you made prior to the quote to me (above) made more sense. At least I think I understand the context of your previous comments now.

 

Not riled, just straight forward