"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

Evidently God thought that man could not achieve this holiness in his own power, so He sent His Son to die for us. If we could achieve the righteousness and holiness of God, Jesus died in vain.

 

:laugh: Philosophy? This is Biblical HP. Our righteousness does not even come close to God's righteousness. Christ died for sinners. He did not come for the healthy, but for the sick remember. If humans were able to attain the righteousness of God, why do you think Christ gave His life?
This is not a philosophical question. Can you provide an answer from the Bible? Can you name one person who went to be with God because of his/her own righteousness?

 

Being righteous in God's eyes is an act of God. It is not based on our perfection. God imputes His righteousness to us because of our faith in Him. Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God. Abraham did his fair share of sinning. He was a pretty good liar. Yet God declared him to be righteous. So, yes. One can sin and still maintain a righteous status before God. That is what grace is all about. Grace means not getting what you deserve.

Have you read Paul's epistles? They're all about grace, grace, grace. Not works.


HP, I would still like to know who has achieved the righteousness of God by their own power and works. Do you have any examples?

 

When you stand before a holy and righteous God some day, and He were to ask you: "Why should I let you into my heaven?" What answer could you give?
If you are not as holy and righteous as God, you may not enter into heaven.

The only way one can be become as righteous as God, is to accept the righteousness of Christ, by trusting Christ as your Saviour. When one does that (believes on Christ and his sacrificial work) Christ forgives his sin (past, present and future), and covers him with a robe of righteousness--the righteousness of Christ. Now God looks on me, and no longer sees me, but sees the righteousness of Christ instead.

Thus when I stand before God I will stand before Him in the righteousness and holiness of Christ. That is the only way that I will be able to stand before God. For nothing that defiles will be able to enter into heaven.

A believer can enter into heaven, even if he has fallen into sin. Christ's righteousness covers all sin. It is sufficient enough to cover all of our sins big and little. Even if a believer would fall into the sin of immorality God's blood would still cover it. His blood is sufficient to cover it all. God sees the righteousness of Christ, not me.
However, that does not mean I advocate sin.

 

It isn't necessarily an either /or. There are levels of righteousness.

In this context, Saul was declaring this truth to David

1 Samuel 24:17 Then he said to David: “You are more righteous than I; for you have rewarded me with good, whereas I have rewarded you with evil.

 

That is comparing the righteousness of man, person to person. But when we compare our righteousness to God's, we will always fall short. We must have the righteousness of Christ in order to see the Father. There are no levels of righteousness when it comes to God. There is either righteousness or unrighteousness.

 

Hello
So what Saul told David was untrue? It certainly doesn't appear that way. Saul also states the truth, that he appears to know imo that David will be King because he is the more righteous one. It's all true.

1 Samuel 24:10-20 NKJV
10 Look, this day your eyes have seen that the LORD delivered you today into my hand in the cave, and someone urged me to kill you. But my eye spared you, and I said, ‘I will not stretch out my hand against my lord, for he is the LORD’s anointed.’ 11 Moreover, my father, see! Yes, see the corner of your robe in my hand! For in that I cut off the corner of your robe, and did not kill you, know and see that there is neither evil nor rebellion in my hand, and I have not sinned against you. Yet you hunt my life to take it. 12 Let the LORD judge between you and me, and let the LORD avenge me on you. But my hand shall not be against you. 13 As the proverb of the ancients says, ‘Wickedness proceeds from the wicked.’ But my hand shall not be against you. 14 After whom has the king of Israel come out? Whom do you pursue? A dead dog? A flea? 15 Therefore let the LORD be judge, and judge between you and me, and see and plead my case, and deliver me out of your hand.”
16 So it was, when David had finished speaking these words to Saul, that Saul said, “Is this your voice, my son David?” And Saul lifted up his voice and wept. 17 Then he said to David: “You are more righteous than I; for you have rewarded me with good, whereas I have rewarded you with evil. 18 And you have shown this day how you have dealt well with me; for when the LORD delivered me into your hand, you did not kill me. 19 For if a man finds his enemy, will he let him get away safely? Therefore may the LORD reward you with good for what you have done to me this day. 20 And now I know indeed that you shall surely be king, and that the kingdom of Israel shall be established in your hand.

 

Hello Joe! :wavey:

Yes, it's all true. And compared to Saul, David was more righteous. But compared to God, David fell short.

We're talking about the righteousness that is needed for salvation.

 

So does this mean at that moment, David is more righteous than Saul so he will likely get more rewards in heaven? If it's not regarding salvation, it must pertain to something.

In the next book of Samuel, David screws up. So his rewards may be lessened, as we are judged for all the deeds we do in our body, good or bad

 

Came back just for this.

Lets see now, This started by the righteousness of Noah. Yet you say, it takes the blood of Christ to make us righteous. That it is not us that God sees, but the righteousness of Christ.
In the days of Noah, the blood had not been shed, so how did he see the righteousness of Noah. I know you will say faith, but God saw Noah's righteous, before the ark, so why can't he see our righteousness because of our faith, why does it have to be by the blood of Christ?

Also, you say the saved were never unsaved at any time, but yet God put the whole household of Israel away and gave her a bill of divorcement. Then God kept saying "return unto me Oh ye Israel, for I am your God" They must of been away from God at one time. Also, a big portion of them are unsaved as of now.

What about Adam, or Cain. Were they not God's at one time but fell and went the way of the unbeliever?

None the less, How were they all covered, for the blood was not shed?

What really amazes me is that God does not see you sin, but sees the righteousness of Christ instead. When he looks at you, He sees Christ. Now ain't that a doozy. When DHK looks at a woman and lusts, if he does, God does not see him do it, He sees the righteousness of Christ instead. If any man committs any sin that is supposed to be saved, adultery, pedophiler, you name it, it is hidden from God, for He does not see that man, but sees the righteousness of Christ.

Now for Amy and Ann:

A hypothetical:
Lets say you go out with one of the brethren each in your church and spend the night at a motel. (Not saying you would) Well, nothing wrong with that for God, does not see you, but the righteousness of Christ, so no wrong done.
But, if your husbands catches you and he does see you, even though God does not, shoots both of you and your lovers, then is he guilty? Not according to you, for God would not see him do it, for all God would see is the righteousness of Christ. Then in Heaven, you and your husband and your lovers, could all walk together and sing "I been redeemed, both soul and body". Lets say, he does not shoot you, he would have to forgive you and go on as if nothing happened, or he would be a hypocrit, for he believes as you, that your sins are covered and all God saw was the righteousness of Christ.

What you all are saying is no matter the "sin", God sees righteousness.

Lets take King David and his real wife. You think she was as forgiving as God whe she saw David with another man's wife. What about the woman he saw naked and sent her husband to the front lines to be killed so he could have his wife. You think the man, said "bless the King, for he sent me here to be killed so he could have my wife", I doubt it, but if he was a saved person, according to you, he would have to.

Your doctrine, theology, belief is that a saved person can and does commit all of the following, but it is not counted as sin, for God does not see it, but sees the "righteousness of Christ". You should be ashame of yourselves.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


God help us all,

BBob,

 

God told Noah to take seven of each clean animal on the ark. The extra animals were sacrificial animals, just as Israel had to make sacrifices. Abel was required to bring sacrifices before the Lord as was Cain also. All the sacrifices that Noah and his sons made were made in anticipation of the Messiah to come, the One who would take away the sins of the world.

I'll leave the problem of eternal security and Israel to your own theology. You already said you believe in eternal security, so you should be able to sort that out for yourself. Our discussion is primarily around the NT.

Why the red herrings?
Is this thread about OT theology?
The topic is "Christians don't sin." not "OT saints don't sin."
Stay on topic.

1 Peter 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The blood was shed before the foundation of the world.
Their sacrifices were a picture of it.

As usual Bob, another misrepresentation, another lie, another transgression of the Ten Commandments, another transgression that you have made which according to James 2:10 is just as bad as rape or adultery. Are you ashamed yet? You should be!
I never said that God doesn't see me sin. God sees all things.
I said that God doesn't see "my sin". Of course he sees the act of sinning. And everyday I come to the Lord and confess it. But my salvation is never in doubt whether I confess it or not. Only my fellowship with God is affected.

Absolutely. When Christ sees me, he sees me clothed in the righteousness of Christ. And if that isn't true for you also, then I question your salvation. It is the only way that one can be saved--if they are clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Another lie. Another misrepresentation. Another equivalent of rape and adultery for you have transgressed the law of God. Check again James 2:10.
--Your stated opinion of God is very low.
You suggest that God is not omniscient--that he doesn't see all things, or know all things; that somehow he is partly ignorant. Is that your view?
You are suggesting that God doesn't see me when I do wrong, and therefore is deficient in his knowledge. This is quite unbelievable, even for you! God knows all things! You misrepresented me and God.

Yes, when God sees me he sees the righteousness of Christ. That is what salvation is all about.

The fact is that Christians sin.
Another fact is that there is no difference between sin.
The fact that you have lied about me on this very post is just the same as you committing rape and adultery. There is no difference in God's eyes. Both are a transgression of God's law. The consequence of those sins may be different, but the nature is not. The nature is that they are a transgression of the law of God. And that is what you have done, even on this very post. You have also attacked the very character of God.