Christians resisting God?

If God formed the U.S., then he also formed Hitler and Stalin's governments/tyrannies. Yes, God is in charge of all powers. That does not make them okay.

I don't see how you can make an exception for the colonies rebelling against the King. Besides, you are ignoring Rom. 13 and other passages.

You are equating God's direct revelation in forming Israel, which we are told about in God's word, with the formation of the U.S.? There is no evidence for that.

There is no evidence that just because the U.S. was formed out of a rebellion, that it was approved of by God. Otherwise, you'll have to say that God approved of Nero, Hitler, Stalin, and some horrible leaders in Africa who torture people.

 

Job 2:10
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.


Isaiah 31

1Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!

2Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.

Isaiah 45:6-8 (King James Version)

6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

8Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

 

This does not make your case. There is no evidence that God led people to rebel against the King; he allowed it, just as he allowed Hitler to rule, Kadafi to rule, Stalin to rule, etc. Because a certain person or gov't is in power does not mean God approves of it or approves of the way it came about.

 

But what about Pharaoh? God did not make him to be evil, yet God did raise him up into power in order to use him for His purposes. Pharaoh did not make himself powerful, God did. In this way God is sovereign even over those who oppose Him.

 

Amy, I have never said that God does not raise up rulers or that God is not sovereign. How in the world does this make Rom. 13 null and void?

 

I used Romans 13. We are commanded not to go against the rulers!!!! The early Chritians were under much worse rulers than the colonies but they were told to obey and subject themselves to the rulers. The colonies did not do this; they armed themselves and rebelled.

So God is in control; I agree with that and have never disagreed.

God being in control does not mean doing wrong is okay! You still are not seeing the point, it seems. God was in control of letting Hitler rule but I doubt you would say that Hitler was a good guy or that God approved of him.

 

I knew Pharaoh was a bad dude, but making salves of God's people?



(Sorry Steaver, I couldn't resist!) :laugh:

 

Did God ordain the USA any differently from any other power/ruler/country? I don't get your question. I never said God ordained the U.S. but it depends on what you mean by "ordain."

Whether God put it in the minds of people to declare independence or not, is not the point.

If He did, then that means he put it in Hitler's heart to kill Jews. Why make a distinction for the U.S.? That's the heart of our disagreement.

I never said God ordained the US, or certainly not in a way different from the way any other ruler/country comes to power. You are trying to say it was okay for the colonies to rebel, but God's word goes against that. Therefore, God does not endorse that, imo.

You are trying to make a distinction between the US and other countries and powers, but you have no basis for that.

I am not dismissing that.

 

Did The Founding Fathers Sin by Founding America?

Check out this article:

http://www.worldviewtimes.com/print.php?&ArticleID=3544

:thumbsup::godisgood::jesus:

 

Agreed. I like this that is quoted in that article:

 

Also,

That seals the point in my opinion. Especially in light of:

 

As far as this goes:

Rom. 13 tells us to obey the government. It makes no provision for civil disobedience. The only way we can perhaps allow civil disobedience is if the gov't commands an action that violates scripture. Daniel was ordered to worship the king; therefore, he could disobey. But he did this by praying, not by trying to overthrow the king. In each case above, they were ordered to do something against God.

If what the colonies did was right, why didn't the early Christians try to overthrow Rome? They certainly were being persecuted, even taken to be killed by lions. But they did not rebel.

 

They might should have. If someone comes to my home and tries to murder my family, and I can get my gun, point and shoot it, then God delivered those men into my hand.