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Christmas thoughts

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Thinkingstuff, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Should people put presents under him as well?
     
  2. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    Hope you had a good Christmas, thinkingstuff.
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Thank you. And its really good for me because until all you people who are following the Papists (and thereby the Laws of man) get on board; I actually celebrate Christmas from September 15th to December 26th. And I'm trying to get my employer to give me all those days off. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Have you ever looked in a "Chronological Bible"? It is one that puts all the events of the Bible in chronological order and assigns a date as close as possible to the actual event according to historical records and Scripture. It assigns the birth of Christ to April 1st, which makes sense. While I don't necessarily believe that he was born on that exact date, I do believe that he was born sometime in the spring, probably in April, when the shepherds were out tending their sheep. It would have been too cold in the dead of winter for them to be doing that. Even the events of the Bible don't give credence to Dec. 25th. But spring is more likely than fall.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Sheep would still be out in September however lets say you are right. I don't mind extending my Christmas holidays from April 1 to December 25th until all Christiandom gets away from Celebrating the Idol Sol Invictus of the papists Christ Mass. Selah.
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes it did have something to do with Sol Invictus. Put simply here is how this pagan feast originated. Prior to December 25th the Romans worshiped the sun-god "Saturnalia". On the shortest day of the year they feared that their god would disappear completely and the god of darkness would be victorious. But December 25th was the first day that they could observe any visible lengthening of the day, and then they celebrated for they realized that their sun-god was not dead. There was hope. The celebration was "a message of hope." That is important to note.

    It was a celebration of merry-making. There was drunkenness, orgies, huge feasts, etc. Man gave into his fleshly appetites without restraint. It was a great pagan celebration.

    In time, this "message of hope" was replaced by another "message of hope," the birth of Christ, even though Christ was not born in December. After all if the pagans could have a big celebration and make merry why couldn't the Christians do the same; so the Catholics reasoned--thus the name Christ-mass, or the mass of Christ. Incorporated into Christmas were all kind of pagan traditions such as the tree, the yule log, the holly, and after that Santa Clause, and more. These, of course, have nothing to do with the birth of Christ. They are pagan practices, and all have pagan origins.
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Have you ever heard this theory about the birth of Jesus? I have no idea if it could be valid or not, but on subjects like this, we are all guessing. In Luke, reference is made to John the Baptist's father, Zachariah, as being of the House of Abijiah, which refers to when they would serve as Chief Priests. Extra biblical sources place his week of duty as June 24th or so. Now, John was born nine months after that which would place it around the end of March. Luke states quite clearly there was six months between the birth of John and Jesus, which would put His birth towards the end of September.

    It is certainly nothing in concrete, but interesting. I have no idea how that time of year relates to the sheep in that area.
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is interesting, but can't say I have ever heard of it.
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Exactly!!!!! So now lets put away this pagan holiday and celebrate Jesus birth in September as we should. Because our hope is in Jesus not Merry Making feast.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The early church didn't celebrate the birth of Christ at all. We all ought to be celebrating the birth of Christ, and his death and resurrection every time we share the gospel, preach the gospel, and especially every time the church celebrates the Lord's Table.
     
  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Why we would mimic or hand down anything the Catholics do is beyond me. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the birth or resurection of Christ, but both celebrations are based on making a buck. It is one sad commentary that we have to even have the slogan every Christmas "Jesus is the reason for the season." Christmas decorations that show up at retail stores in August just make me sick. The whole mindset around Christmas, the gifts, the decorations, the stuffing ourselves like pigs, the going to this party or that party, is a whirlwind of baloney and wasted effort for at least a month. What does any of that have to do with the birth of Jesus Christ? I guess as much as eggs and rabbits have to do with the ressurection.

    Which brings up the order of priority. Why is it that the birth of Jesus takes up at least two months of the year, and His resurection is barely a blip on the radar, not even having the status of a day off from work. Is that backwards or what? What saves us? The finished work of Christ on the cross and His resurrection. The following things do not save us, nor are they part of the Gospel: Lighted trees, colored eggs, flying reindeer, Frosty the Snowman, chestnuts on an open fire, silver bells, or the drummer boy.

    We of the Baptist faith should take the lead in returning these celebrations to their original intent. If we came out of the Reformation(another debate), then we are the largest Protestant group, and should take the lead. If we did not, then we have a special obligation as the ones who preserved the original church through the Lord.
     
  12. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Look at post 38
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I'm for extending the celebration of the ressurrection and I think we should hold it on passover rather than the Papist Jullian Calendar. We're baptist for crying out loud! We've been around since the begining so why do we keep submitting to those papist? Stop it. Celebrate Christmas in September (and change the Name) not celebrate anything on December 25th and make Easter during Passover rather than follow the Papist norm using agian the Julian Calendar. Because we are distinctively Christian and not pagan. And get rid of all our pagan trees as well because the scriptures are clear about not putting silver and gold on a tree.
     
  14. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Echoing others...

    MERRY CHRISTMAS, THINKINGSTUFF!!!
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    bah! Humbug!!!!!!
     
    #55 Thinkingstuff, Nov 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2009
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am having this debate on another thread already.
    The passover has nothing to do with the resurrection. It symbolizes the death of Christ--Christ our paschal lamb, our sacrifice. It would be more appropriate as a substitute for Good Friday than Resurrection Sunday.
     
  17. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I'm talking about cutting out all pagan influence including dates. Like easter. We should not wear crosses because that was a pagan symbol we should not celebrate resurrection sunday on easter we should not celebrate Christmas on december 25th. We should not use fish because that was first used by astrologers. We should not listen to rock music because it was originally used to modify the blues to an arousing level in young people. We should stay away from all things pagan. But we are not. We aren't our own. We follow the Papist celebration of Sol Invictus and their celebration of Easter. We listen to "christian rock" we carry symbols of pagans around our necks and on our cars. We shake hands which was pagan to begin with. We say stupid things like knock on wood. Are we a distinct people of God or are we pagans. When will we stop? And be distinct Christians and not pagans?
     
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    How is wearing a cross being pagan? We know what the cross stands for. There are pagan type crosses (the equal armed cross comes to mind) but this should not keep us from wearing a cross, if one wishes.

    The Christian fish symbol is very different looking from the Pisces symbol in astrology.

    Are you really saying shaking hands, wearing crosses, and using the Christian fish symbol is wrong?
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Didn't we have that discussion with the "Triquetra" topic a while ago? Come to think of it, what's wrong with wearing a "Pisces" symbol or an "Ankh"? There's nothing at all wrong with wearing any of these. It's why one wears them that is of importance, and methinks that's the point TS is trying to make here.
     
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Fifty or more years ago you would have never seen an evangelical church with a cross; a steeple perhaps, but not a cross. It was an outward symbol of Roman Catholicism. It is not a symbol of Christianity. When Paul spoke of the cross he was never speaking of a physical image, some beautiful thing to be adorned.

    The cross is horrible, ugly, defiled by torn flesh, bloody masses of gruesome body parts. If you want to wear a cross make it real. It wasn't silver or gold. It was wood and rugged and stained with blood.

    Would you wear an electric chair around your neck, or the hangman's noose? Why not? The cross was the common method of execution done by the Roman government. It was a means of death. It was not glorious. Remember that two thieves died the same way, one on each side of Christ. Why would anyone want to wear a cross around their neck. It is horrible and gruesome. If your going to do it, make it realistic.

    When Paul spoke of the cross, that is what he spoke of; the cross that Christ died on--something horrible; aweful; gruesome, painful, something that Jesus did to take away our sins.

    A little gold decoration around one's neck in no way represents what Christ did on the cross. It may represent Catholicism, but not Christianity. If you need a symbol for Christianity it is the empty tomb, not a cross.
    We don't serve a dead Saviour.
     
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