Christology

1. I have great respect for John Owen, but he is not my standard, Scripture is. When he agrees with Scripture, then I espouse his writings, when he doesn't, then I part with him.

2. I believe Owen's use of 1 Peter 3:18 is incorrect, pneuma is not speaking of the Holy Spirit, but of the spirit. Consult several versions and commentaries on this.

3. I believe the Holy was involved in the resurrection of Jesus. If I didn't, Rom 1:4 and 8:11 would make no sense to me. But I don't believe we have to prove that from a problematic verse as 1 Peter 3:18.

4. Are we speaking of persons like ourselves? If NO, then it's a riddle of semantics and there's no harm in personalities.

 

1. The Bible says so in Romans 1:4 and 8:11.

2. Then person it is.

 

No problem.

I already mentioned, both can be correct. God the Father raised Him, or Trinity raised Him. However, usually the Bible states simply "God raised His Son" Then you said I am heretic going to the Hell because I don't know the Trinity and Godheads. That is wrong.

The most important aspect of the Cross is the Absolute Obedience to God the Father by His Son. Jesus obeyed His Father unto death, even the death at the Cross. He could come down from the Cross any time. But He didn't. Even at the time of Resurrection, He could have raised Himself. However, He committed Himself to His Father. I am sure that Jesus waited for the Raise by His Father in His absolute obedience, because such absolute obedience is the part of the divine nature as well. Therefore God the Father justly raised His Son, which is the common statement in ac 3:13-26 and many other verses of Bible, which you are eager to deny now, to insist that the raise by the Trinity is the only answer.

How many times should I explain to you about this? Read my previous posts and the explanation about this.

I don't need your approval. The acceptance and approval by God is more than enough for me. I am glad that you will not sit on the Seat of the Great Judge on the Day of Great Judgment. Take care of yourself. Sir.

 

You have proven this man is a Heretic !

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

 

Your tactic seems to be to use the term "heresy" or "heretic" just as the RCC did during the dark ages whenever one of your ideas is challenged.

Constantly slinging pejorative terms "proves nothing" except that it reminds the reader to check and see if your argument is going weak.

Actually he made a good point against your stance which you keep ducking. Scripture does NOT say that Christ turned to the thief on the cross and then lectured him on the trinity before dying.

I for one fully agree with the Trinitrian view and I also agree that all three members of the Godhead were involved in the work, ministry and even resurrection of Christ.

But you are going to some pretty wild extremes.

In John 16 Christ said to His OWN "I have many MORE things to tell you but you can not bear them" and then predicted the work of the Holy Spirit as He continued to reveal more truth to them. But wait a minute!! you say the Holy Spirit must do a full and complete core-dump of all data on the infinite truths regarding the Trinity at the moment of salvation OR the person can not be saved at all. That is extreme.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I already mentioned your ignorance of Greek language caused the misunderstanding of Ro 8:11

Let me re-translate for you

But if the Spirit of the Raiser ( God the Father) who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He ( God the Father) who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.

John 2:19 is the only resort for you, as you don't understand this truth:

Phil 2

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name


In your theology, God the Father Himself also took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men, and God the Father was crucified at the Cross.

If you don't believe that, you are denying the Trinity, and you are heretic according to your own theology, right?

God sent His Son Jesus to this world to save you.

In your theology, it is a heresy because it should be this:

God the Son sent Jesus to this world to save you. If you deny it, you are denying Trinity, and therefore you become a Heretic, right?

 

god the father sent jesus to earth to redeem us by his blood and the works of the cross , jesus did the will of his father when he was here , read thebook of john anf you will see this :jesus:

 

Is this really his theology on the Trinity?

 

Yes, that's what we are arguing about from the beginning. Read thru the Posts.
He asked me " who raised Jesus from the dead?" I answered "God raised Jesus from the dead." Then he said I am wrong and should go to the Hell because I don't have the right spirit, saying that Romans 8:11 tells us that the Spirit raised Him from the dead, and Trinity worked there.
Then I said, Both can be right, God raised Jesus from the dead, and God in Trinity may have worked together.
He condemns anyone who confess that God raised His Son from the dead, claiming that one should have the notion that God in Trinity has raised Jesus.

Trinity raised Jesus, this is the only legitimate answer according to his theology. Because Jesus said, he would raise the temple in three days ( Jn 2:19) If anyone doesn't know this crucial truth, he or she is condemned to go to the Hell and they are Heretic. That's his Litmus Paper for the discernment of Salvation.

That is his theology.

Read thru all the arguments above, they are very much interesting.

 

BGTF,

Did Jesus say that He would raise the temple in three days while He was alive or did He say that while He was dead?

I ask this question because your stronghold to claiming that God the Son raised Jesus from the dead is John 2:19, and I already told you that if anyone could raise the dead, then that person was no longer dead but was already alive.

Do you claim that Jesus died only a half death, only the humanity died and the divinity was still alive?

 

1. I've read the posts. This label is uncalled for; I do not see you denying the deity of Christ.

2. In fact, outside of John's narrative, every reference to the resurrection of Christ points to the Father doing the raising, with the instrumentality of the Spirit in one instance (Rom 1:4).

3. Earlier I used Romans 8:11 to show that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, but my use was incorrect, after looking at it again. It is the Father who does the raising in this verse.

4. The Greek on Romans 1:4 is not too clear either, but the versions seem to involve the Spirit in Christ's resurrection.

 

And more than that - it is hard to argue that all Christians must have the same view of it as BGTF or else be doomed to the flames of hell.

So while I happen to agree that all three were involved with this event just as all three were invovled in the Gen 1-2:3 creation event "Let US make man in OUR own imagine" and yet John 1 points to Christ as the Creator of all on this earth -- still I have a hard to seeing this as a formula for dooming other Christians.

in Christ,

Bob

 

I believe that the Father, the Son and the Spirit all part of the resurrection of Jesus. Does that put your soul at rest?