Featured Clear up confusion about tongues!

We are not talking about PERSONAL growth but about the chosen MEANS to provide the revealed will of God. These are revelatory gifts and means to reveal the will of God. They are "in part" meaning they do not provide a MATURE or COMPLETE means for that end. What provides a compelte and Mature means for that end? Paul tells you that in 2 Tim. 2:1

This is his usual kind of expression for claiming inspiration of his writings (2 Thes. 2:15; 3:6) and Peter confirms (2 Pet. 3:15-17).

 

Again, verses 16-17 show the MEANS rather than refer to personal amount of knowlege.

3000 jews in Acts 2
Jewish witnesses in Acts 10
Jewish synoguoge in Acts 19:7

He is claiming that his written teachings are the Lord's Commands. Except for for 1 cor. 14:20-21, If you can find these commands anywhere in the Old Testament I would like to see them. Do you believe 1 Corinthians is the Word of God written under inspiration? If so, then what basis would you support that belief?

 

If you were an apostle I would be listening to your opinion but you are not. If what you are writing was by inspiration I would take heed but it is not. Paul is an apostle but he used God's Word as his authority for providing a MATURE understanding of God's design for tongues. I think it would be best to follow him instead of you?!?

 

I don't think we are going to get anywhere in this discussion. The Moderator usually closes down a thread when it has reached 30 pages and this has gone to at least 31 pages.

We don't agree but we can disagree agreeably. Again, I do appreciate the fact that you are one of the very few charismatics that actually attempt to provide a Biblical defense for tongues. I appreciate that and I do respect you for that.

 

Well, the old saying still is true, "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

 

I will summarize my primary points.

1. 1 Cor. 14:2 says nothing about prayer but "speaketh" and the contextual reason given by Paul that none understand it but God is because there is no interpretation accompanying it - vv. 3-11.

2. 1 Cor. 14:14-17 says nothing about a PRIVATE prayer tongue but is in the context of listeners (v. 17) and Paul is repudiating the idea of vocalizing tongues in any manner without understanding by both the speaker (v. 15) and by the hearers (v. 17).

3. 1 Cor. 14:20-23 is providing the MATURE and BIBLICAL design God has behind tongues and it is not for the use of believer's among themselves but as a "sign" to the Jewish people that their messiah has come and as a warning of judgement for refusing this sign.

4. Tongues like all gifts are sovereignly bestowed by God's will not our will (12:11) and each church member is gifted and fitted to Gods design in the church body not their desired gift or function (12:18) and so such gifts obviously are not shared by all Christians just as not all functions are shared by all Christians (12:28-30) and so zealously pursuing such gifts as they are doing is foolish and there is a BETTER WAY - the way of love.

5. Revelatory gifts are "in part" as they but a temporary MEANS toward a more MATURE/PERFECT COMPLETED means to convey God's revealed will which is the apostolic finished New Testament and completed canon. - 1 Cor. 13:8-10.

6. In the "NOW" of apostolic Christianity before this completed means arrives tongues is temporary and juvinal which will cease to exist BEFORE other revelatory gifts are stopped by the completed revelation of the N.T. - 1 Cor. 13:11

7. In the "NOW" our revelatory means is like a blurred mirror that does not provide a MATURE reflection as will be the case when the completed revelation of God will "then." So the in part revelations don't give us the whole picture. - 1 Cor. 13:12

8. In the "NOW" mature use of spiritual gifts in the absence of completed revelation is the way of love whereby the principles of let all things be done for edification of others, according to order and descency and in keeping with the Scriptures they do have - 1 Cor. 13:13

9. During apostolic times sign gifts were the "sign" of an apostles and only apostles exercised them between acts 2 and Acts 6. From Acts 6 forward it was through apostolic laying on of hands such gifts were imparted.

10. That the phrase "praying in the Spirit" has no reference to tongues whatsoever but refers to simply praying under the leadership of the Spirit of God regardless if it for supplicationary prayer, intercessory prayer, thankgiving prayer, etc.

11. Today the so-called gift of tongues is nothing more than esctatic utterances common to other religions and the charistmatic movement is nothing but chaos, confusion, division and characterized by false doctrines clear evidence of what spirit is behind it.

 

He is, and having said that this thread is well past 30 pages and needs to be closed.