Cleveland and LeBron

He'd better step it up and make a better showing. I don't think the market is very good right now for a great player from Oct-March.

 

I admit I don't follow the NBA as much as I used to. It just doesn't appeal to me much. That said, it does beg a question: Is Lebron enough to win a championship with? Answer: no. So it depends on who you surround him with. The Knicks? Forget it. They will sell the store to get him in, and won't have enough left for a Bosh. Even if they did, who are they going to get inside?

CLE has to fire Brown and my neighbors to the north better worry. Cal might jump to Cleveland to coach Lebron and company.

CHI still wouldn't have the pieces for a title with Lebron. Noah is a good role player. Rose is a great complement, but you have to have more than just a couple of pieces. And let's not forget they don't have a coach. I think they fired Vinny because he jst didn't fit. Hard to lure a player without a coach. Has CHI liked any coach since Phillip?

D'Antoni couldn't get it done in PHX with a good nucleus. Why does anyone think he can do it in NY?

Ferry is a joke with the Cavs. Jameson and Shaq have too much mileage. Ilgauskas, West, Varejo...nice pieces. But honestly, these guys aren't championship caliber. They have to go out and get a coach, make a good pick in the draft, and maybe they'll be back in the hunt. Lebron is special, but even Jordan couldn't do it by himself.

But I suspect you questioned my Oct - March comment. Sorry, prove me wrong. What good is it to be the best team in the regular season? None if you're at home by Memorial Day.

My gut feeling: 40% Lebron gets Brown fired and stays with a new coach. 30% he signs with CHI if they get a good hire. 10% he goes to the Knics. 20% says a mystery team jumps in out of the West. I have a theory or two, but I'll hold it to myself

 

Let me clarify. I was specifically referring to this post-season. He did have a triple double in the elimination game. However, he also had a quad double if you count his turnovers. You don't make a case for being the best FA out there if you disappear like he did in game 5, for example. That said, there's too much splash not to bring him in, all else disregarded.

I've never criticized him for not winning a ring yet. He's only what...24 or so"? He's a victim of circumstances to an extent. These ESPN bozos talking abouth is legacy are...well, bozos.

Depends on who the coach is in both circumstances. On balance, all else being equal, I don't know that I'd agree with that statement. You can't go from being as bad as the Bulls are to being as good of a team as you argue the Cavs are by just switching one player, IMHO.

I'd have to look at the PHX numbers to see his team defense when there. I just don't think the Knickerbockers are designed to win.

I didn't do what you allege, so this point is moot. I still maintain that Lebron doesn't the pieces in place in CLE for a title run, and it's not Lebron's fault.

Permission to treat the witness as hostile? :tongue3:

 

Maybe. But it's happening. Now, how much that will affect his FA status/price remains to be seen.

Just looked up his stats for this year. His second round stats are much worse than his first. FG% 12 pts lower. 3 pt FG% is down by half. 3 TOs a game to almost 5. And looking at his career Reg Season vs playoffs, this is not new just doing a quick test. I'm not saying the perception is accurate. I'm just saying it seems to be out there.

See above. He played a horrible game 5 and that gave his detractors room to question his playoff mettle, fair or not. He puts up gaudy numbers but doesn't necessarily "help his team win." I contend he hasn't had all the pieces in place and don't think NY or CHI would give him a much better opportunity but we've been down that road.

Gladly. First, the Bulls aren't terrible. But they are nowhere near the elite of the East. Put them in a 7 game series with CLE, BOS, or ORL, and they lose way more series than they'd win.

This year, CLE had the best record in the NBA. Chi would've missed the playoffs in the West. Since 2005, the Bulls have had one winning season and gotten no higher than a home seed. Since 2005, CLE has finished no worse than 2nd in their division and has played for a title, one other conference crown. Chi win pct during that time? .500. CLE? Let's just say it's much higher

I won't argue that Rose is probably a better #2 on paper and maybe even on the floor. But then what do you have? I'm sorry...Noah isn't ready for primetime. And then what? Brad Miller? Deng, assuming he gets on the floor if Lebron is around? Heinrich? I don't see CHI having a frontcourt that's an upgrade from CLE. Explain how Brad Miller and Noah are an upgrade from Ilgauskas and Shaq with Varejo to boot. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying the Cavs are the 80s Celts or the 90s Bulls. Clearly they aren't. But I don't believe anyone in the East is a Lebron away a title, except maybe Boston, and they aren't buying.

At the end, I think we agree on everything except how good a fit he'd be in CHI. You seem to think that Lebron instantly makes CHI the best in the East. I disagree. I think they'd be much better, but not necessarily better than what he has now.

 

I don't entirely disagree, yet I think some are looking at his whole body of work. Some are just talking to be talking, to be sure.

How can you say this (or anyone) about a team that doesn't have a coach?

Correct. I don't think the Bulls are bad (unless you compare them to the Cavs, which I did). They do have a mediocore record.

True, but not non-seq entirely. When we're comparing them to a team with the best record of either conference, it's worth pointing out that the team of comparison is 16th best in the league at best, if that.

As I said, even if I cede that point, that doesn't prove the Bulls are better than the Cavs.

I haven't seen this much, but what I have seen is people predicting he will land in Chicago. Anyone who argues that CHI is immediately a better fit when the team doesn't even have a coach yet is listening to too much Stuart Scott.

By the way, ESPN is now reporting that Chi's flavor of the week status is slipping. Now, Miami, Houston, both LA teams, and even the Nets are in the running. Kinda goes to my point. Chi was the sexy pick for a while. ESPN giveth and ESPN taketh away :laugh:

Obama has now weighed in. Glad he's thinking of weighty matters: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/we-are-lebron-obama-wants_n_577063.html

 

I happen to disagree with the CW here. Who the Bulls hire makes all the difference in the world. If it didn't matter, why is this story about a Calipari/James package deal making so much hay? Or Phil going back to Chicago? If they felt that the coach didn't matter in Chicago, why fire Vinny? And you'll never hear me disagree about Mike Brown. If he's fired (how do you fire the coach with the best record in the league over the last two seasons) and you bring in Coach K, Cal, or one of another of Lebron's hand-picked coaches, all is likely well. Or do you make a run at Phillip? That said, Mike Brown must be better than Del Negro on some level since his Cavs went 6-3 against the Bulls this year.

Interesting next few days. Just read an article that says Brown will be out by week's end. Cal would be targeted as would "players coach" Avery Johnson if not hired by the Hawks.

 

I'd like to think they had a better reason than that. A player on another team shouldn't factor into your hiring/firing decision, but with the Bulls, all things are possible

I largely agree, though there was some perception in Cle that Brown isn't a playoff coach. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

Del Harris wouldn't agree :laugh: I think CLE made the mistake of thinking that Brown would bring some of Popovich's style and success to CLE. Hasn't happened. Nor do I think Popovich is one of the NBA's best.

This was his perception in DAL until they made the deal to get Kidd, and Kidd well....Kidded another coach. How many has this guy torpedoed now?

 

Forgot to add....I keep reading articles (sick today) that says NJ is more interested by the minute and if they get a #1 overall, they'll offer the store to get Lebron. Big mistake on both parts. There's no one in my mind worthy in this draft of King James. Evan Turner would make a nice complement, and with some work, Wall could be a good PG for James, but no way does either replace Lebron.

If I were a huge Cavs fan, I'd be getting very nervous about what Ferry might be thinking

 

First, I mistyped (stupid stomach bug). What I meant to say was that Brown in my mind was not the best of Popovich's assistants who are now scattered in the NBA. I'd take Felton and a couple others. I wonder if Brown's time with Rick Carlisle didn't hurt him some. I loved Rick, but he seemed to lose luster for some reason.

I don't think there's any question that any list of the NBA's best coaches that wouldn't have Popp in the top three. Anything below that and drug testing needs to occur.

Second, I think Nash was DEFINITELY tweaking Jackson's nose and enormous ego :tongue3: