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Clown Communion, Okay or Not?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J.D., Mar 17, 2008.

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  1. Yes, clown communion is okay.

    5 vote(s)
    11.6%
  2. No, clown communion is not okay.

    38 vote(s)
    88.4%
  1. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Christ prayed for Unity...
    God is Love...
    And His blood set us free!

    And this folks, is what happens when grace robbers get control of your church....

    [​IMG]

    Both extremes are dangerous...
     
  2. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I'll ask the question again that another poster asked. What is even the purpose of dressing up like a clown to administer the Lord's Supper. I just don't get it. What does dressing up in a Red Skelton like costume have to do with the Lord's Supper. I've always said that if it would reach people for Jesus that I'd preach in a clown suit. I never expected anyone to take it seriously (except for a few mischievous deacons). I'm willing to do whatever it may take to reach people for Christ. But, this seems like a lot of overkill to me. Where is the focus? Is it on the clown or on the Lord and remembering His death until He returns. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't won't a clown preaching my memorial service.
     
  3. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    OK...I'll wade in...

    I cannot find a Scripture that I think directly ties to the issue.

    However, When it comes to communion, I would hesitate to conduct it in such a way to trivialize it, or to distract the participant from reflection. We must keep in mind the critical step of self-examination in communion. It is not a "spectator sport." So in my church...no, we wouldn't do it that way.

    But I also think that we shouldn't pull verses out of our hat to condemn something, if we're yanking verses out of context. I've seen some of that on this thread. When we need to condemn something or rebuke error...let us use Scripture wisely in that effort.

    (I know....out-of-context Scripture use? On the BB? Gasp!)
     
    #63 rbell, Mar 17, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2008
  4. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    I happen to take classes with a lady that is a member of an episcopalian church who's priest is a proud practicing (person with certain tendancies we're not allowed to talk about on this thread). When I speak to her, I can not get a word in edge-wise between her cries of "love", "caring", "unity", etc. Is that what Jesus meant by unity? Of course not, but the changes come in increments. You better draw the line somewhere before you're guilted into going along with everything on the liberal agenda.

    And beside,that's probably a picture of an old church building where they used to preach "get right with God" but when they started preaching "get rich with God" they grew so large they had to abandon it.
     
  5. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Thank you Amy, and this is the reason I've been pushing around the idea of the regulative principle. We can debate endlessly as to what the RP allows and forbids, but at least we would have a baseline from which to debate.

    The normative principle, which is what most people go by whether they know it or not, says that you can do anything the Bible does not expressly forbid.

    Now those that hold to the normative principle must support that church's decision to have clown communion, because there is no verse in the Bible that says "thou shalt not have clown communion".

    But if you follow the regulative principle, you can say to the clown "what verse in the Bible says that a clown will entertain and blow bubbles during the Lord's Supper?"; then the clown can not defend his practice from the Bible. His motives will be exposed - "because I want to do it, that's why".

    It's asking "what does the Bible say I CAN do" as opposed to "what does the Bible say I CAN'T do".

    It has nothing to do with putting people under the letter of the law. It has everything to do with keeping churches Biblical. This was the wisdom of the puritans and separatists of England and the American Colonies.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Scripture is quite clear on this issue. While the thought of the irreverent dressing up like clowns was not in view God's heart on this matter is in plain view to us. We understand that we are remembering the sacrifice of Christ. Such a memorial is not a jovial matter. It bears much weight and requires a serious somberness to give full meaning to what was done on our behalf.



    Is it appropriate to give witness of the death, burial and resurrection of our Savior in such a light and dismissive manner as to make this memorial a "fun" moment? I suggest it is disrespectful, lacks the seriousness to give our hearts an opprotunity to consider the weight of the sacrifice.



    Let this be a warning about this clowning behavior to this required memorial of our Lord and Savior. The manner in which we hold this memorial is serious business. Scripture is clear on this matter and we can know God's heart without a doubt.

    "Fun" in church is not a virtue. It was not until this thread and another that I have ever seen or heard anyone suggest that our sunday services are not to be worship services. How far we are declining in our day.

    2 Timothy 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (ESV)
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    double post.
     
    #67 Revmitchell, Mar 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2008
  8. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    But below and in other posts in this thread you would be opposed to clown led communions. My head is spinning. So you are not opposed to any restraints then?


    Thanks for the clarification. So it would be ok outside a building not labeled as a church then. Now I've got out and out vertigo.
     
  9. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    This post is excellent J.D.

    I am certainly appaled by this blasphemy.

    I even agree with SFIC and Linda on this one, though I am not toally sure for all of the same reasons.

    God has given us great, great liberty and freedom in our personal lives.
    The legalists among us want to take that away.

    God also commands worship and reverence.
    Why can't the licentious among us give Him that?
     
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Please tell me how Scripture states communion should physically be done, in what location, and administered by whom.
     
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    No, you don't.

    First of all, there is no passage in the Bible that says,

    Since we're into coining phrases not in Scripture...how about this one:

    The Wisdom Principle
    Let's flesh this out with regards to communion:
    God has given us some hard-and-fast rules...such as "let a man examine himself," and "do this in remembrance of me." He's also given us some principles...such as that this is to be done with an understanding of its importance. And then...on other issues...the Bible is silent. Such as, "should organ music play as we partake?"

    Obey the rules...do diligence to search out, understand, and follow the principles...and then when those two do not object, do as your conscience allows, and allow your brother the same grace.

    Of course, this "principle" ain't in Scripture either...but as long as we're making 'em up, might as well customize.​
     
  12. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Rev, I saw that too, but they were making a semantic argument. Technically, "worship" means bowing down or prostrating to show worth to a person or object. But we are talking about worship - corporate worship - in the conventional sense, which is what we do when we assemble together.
     
  13. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    In your effort to mock the RP (that is what you're doing, right?), you actually give a good example of how it works. Churches should ask themselves "should organ music play as we partake?" There may not be agreement on the answer, but as you have examined the Bible's instructions concerning the Lord's Supper, the RP has brought you to ask the question and examine the scriptures for the answer.

    Now, some will say "this is a silly question about the organ playing". To which I would reply go ahead then and start down that road of letting decisions be made without careful examination of scripture and see where you wind up. I say no organ because the pattern in scripture is a hymn after the meal, not during. If you were to disagree, fine, but I'm going to force you to defend your position from scripture. This is a good thing.

    The thread on foot washing was a good example of the type of question that we SHOULD be asking. Do we wash feet or not? It's not silly, it's healthy debate, as long as we respect a biblically-founded position that each other may have. Although I do not agree with foot washing, I respect those that do it because they can point to scripture which, by their understanding, says to do it. They didn't just make it up out of thin air. If they did that, then we would have a serious problem. Of course, foot washing can split a church, but should not bring accusations of apostacy. Hopefully you get my drift by now.
     
  14. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Who the heck's mocking? I made what I consider to be a well-thought out post relevant to the issue. Furthermore, I have as much Biblical justification for my "wisdom principle" as you do the "regulative principle."

    Besides....with your statements to the effect that "people who don't believe in the RP will accept anything" is more mocking in its tone than my post was.
     
  15. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    You based this on what we see in the synoptics, but I ask of you, Why don't we all meet in an upper room for the LS?
     
  16. kmichael

    kmichael New Member

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    Some folks have perverted the Gospel of Christ. Some do not take church serious enough. But really, this is not surprising considering the obvious and visibly apparent unregenerate church that today, exists within and amongst the true fold. They cannot worship so they allow Satan to use them to prohibit true Christians from worshipping.


    Beware the ravaging wolves!
     
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Good point, TCG. Why do we pick and choose what we observe?

    Why don't we wear beards, robes and sandals, too?
     
  18. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    In the link I checked it was a United Methodist Church, I believe.

    Episcopal, United Methodist, either way it certainly doesnt surprise me that this abomination is being done in a liberal *church*.

    Shameful.

    btw, just for the record I have no problem whatsoever with a non-*ordained* person serving communion. No problem at all.

    But (((Clowns)))????

    Its just completly unimaginable.

    Mike
     
  19. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    I had to check the link to see what was meant, because here, "Communion" (as a term for the Lord's Supper) tends to to be used mostly in the "liturgical" churches. Baptists and other evangelical churches are more likely to refer to it as ..."The Lord's Supper". (The section headed "Communion" in the hymn book used at my church, Grace Hymns, contains hymns about the believer's communion with Christ, such as "There is a Place of Quiet Rest", "I Need Thee Every Hour", and "In heavenly Love Abiding").

    I then tried doing a search for "clown communion" in the UK version of Google, at: www.google.co.uk If I chose the "Search pages from the UK" option, this brought up no results at all. There are Church of England clergymen who put on clown acts, such as: http://www.rolybain.co.uk/ but I have not heard of a baptist pastor doing so, nor have I heard of the Lord's Supper being led by someone in clown costume.

    We surely need to keep in mind what the Lord's Supper is about - remembering and proclaiming the Lord's death. If the question is, "Is it OK for a Christian who happens to be a clown to take part in the Lord's Supper?" my answer would be a resounding "Yes!" But if the question is, "Is it OK for someone to lead the Lord's Supper dressed up in an outfit inextricably linked with making people laugh?" I would answer "No!" Indeed, anything that the one leading dresses himself in to mark himself out as special, different from the other partakers, is wrong, including clerical vestments. The centre of attention must be Christ.
     
  20. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Yes, it was a well-thought out post after all. I couldn't hear the tone in your voice to tell whether you were mocking or serious. My apologies.

    Your "wisdom principle" looks a lot like my "regulative principle", but hay, as long as it's biblically sound, I'm for it.

    I DO NOT believe that people who don't follow that RP will accept anything, as evidenced by this thread. After watching the video, it seems that the BB was universaly repulsed by what we saw.[Edit: I guess it's not universal - I see five votes in favor of the clown communion] What I do believe is that the normative principle (or even worse, a general absence of any guiding principle at all) opens doors that may later lead to error and even apostacy. If we are to be watchmen, we need know what we're watching for. I think you would agree with that?
     
    #80 J.D., Mar 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2008
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