Commit Suicide

DeafPost: Unfortunately since you placed the topic under the "Baptist-Only" debate section the thread is now subject to the rules for that particular forum.

LorriG: My heart goes out to you. You have shown much courage in giving your testimony. I truly do understand how difficult living with depression can be. If you ever need a friend or shoulder you can email my any time.

It is my opinion that suicide is forgivable since Jesus died on the cross for all our sins. All "us" our sins and "all of" our sins. Suicide is the easy way out and sometimes people crack under pressure and strain saved or not. We are just humans afterall. Who hasn't told a lie at least once? And that's one of the 10 commandments.

Hmm...if anyone figures out some good answers for the "Did Jesus die for Satan's sins too" question, can y'all let me know. I've never pondered that one before. I started to answer that qt, but then just confused myself.

azwyld
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As with all other circumstances, we're not permitted to judge a person's salvation. It would be ridiculous, however, to elevate suicide to the level of "unforgiveable sin". If the person accepted the Lord in his/her life, and lived a life that attempted to bear fruit of his/her faith, then that should be the focus when discussing the decedent.

I used to think this as well, until I learned that a great number of those who commit suicide often suffer from severe clinical depression. Clinical depression is serious medical condition that, if untreated, results in destructive behavior. Unfortunately, many don't take the situation seriously, and presume that you can just "get over" clinical depression, like you can get over a bad mood.

 

Get over clinical depression... yeah right!

It affects quite a few more people out there than the public is aware of I'm afraid. I think at one point I tolerated tipper because she was one of the people getting awareness out about it and she had a history of it.

azwyld
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This is a very personal topic for me. You see, I have planned my own suicide several times. I am on meds. But I am still not the same person I was a couple of years ago - always positive, encouraging. Today, it's only by God's grace that I am still here, reading, learning and understanding how hard this is.......

LorrieGrace, thank you for sharing your story.

Carolyn

 

This is an interesting and touchy subject. Let me tell you why. I once knew a girl who was a Christian who considered committing suicide, but she claimed that the only thing that stopped her was that she thought she would go to hell. (She had a Pentecostal background.)

I have heard this has been a deterant to suicide, but it is not reality.

Sure, suicide is murder and it is a crime. Unlike the Roman Catholics we do not have to ask for forgiveness of each sin we commit. Our Father provided His Sons blood to cover those sins, past, present and future.

In the years I have been in my investigative business I have dealt with many suicidal people. I must also say that MOST have not been Christians---so they have "no hope".

But, I have also noticed that they were the ones who were often crying for help, rather than really wanting to die, because they were afraid to die.

We had a pastor at a former church that I was a member who was a good Christian man. After he retired he taught seminary for a while and for some reason went into deep depression and committed suicide. I honestly believe that this man is with God today.

Like Robycop3 says, suicide typically involves some sort of mental illness. Even depression is a mental illness when it reaches a dangerous stage. Factors in a person's life can bear down on them so hard physically that something snaps.

In my opinion, to take your own life, something HAS to be wrong mentally. Today, it has been realized that mental illness is NOTHING to be ashamed of. Everybody has instability at times.

In fact, when a person gets mad and throws something (even just a wadded piece of paper), that person has lost emotional control--although it is temporary.

In my opinion, all murderers are classified as "insane", but this is not the states definition of insanity for purposes of trial, and it shouldn't be because it should not be an excuse for not dealing out punishment.

God knows the heart of the person who commits suicide. They are either His child or not. If they ARE His child, they will spend eternity with the Lord, if not, well you know the answer there.

I have seen Christians who are ill wish and even pray that they go on to be with the Lord because they know a better life is in store for them. Most will not take their own life, but some certainly wouldn't stop it if it were an easy way to do it without hurting their relatives, etc. Does this make it right? NO! But, until we are feeling the emotional pain of depression whether caused by external factors, effects of drugs, mental illness and other factors, it is hard for us to judge those who do take the final step and although it is called the easy way out---the ones that I have seen actually go through with it, went through hell on earth before they took that decided step.

So, I am not so judgemental on someone who takes their life--Christian or not, because I know there are factors that can bring a person to these points and thank goodness that I have never had to experience anything as close as that.

Robycop3 will probably agree with me on this, but most suicide attempts are just that "attempts". Somebody wanting someone to notice them and they are looking for attention -- not egotistical attention, they are wanting to know someone cares, attempted suicide is a way to obtain that recognition. The sad part is, many "attempts" work. In fact, it is well known that men attempting suicide typically are successful and many women are not.

Why? Men tend to use things like guns (deadly weapons that are NOT forgiving). Whereas women often take a different approach and swallow a bottle of pills or try to cut their wrist.

It is often thought that many of the car accidents that were thought to be "falling asleep" may actually be suicides. ...not all, but some. Especially the ones that run off of a steep embankment, over a cliff or broadside into a bridge embankment.

A lot of statistics are now showing that this is now a favored way.

Sadly, though, many people who "attempt" suicide wind up physically messed up for the rest of their lives, but often they are glad to be alive after facing death so close.

Can a Christian commit suicide? Absolutely. He or she can also commit murder, break the speed limit, get drunk and commit any number of sins, of which God will forgive them for.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

I want to reiterate that a great number of those who commit suicide often suffer from severe clinical depression. Clinical depression is serious medical condition that, if untreated, results in destructive behavior. Many others suffer from mental ilnesses that need medical attention.

Unfortunately, many don't take the situations seriously. They presume you can just "get over" clinical depression, and that all you need to overcome mental illness is talk to a pastor. There are a lot of people in premature graves because of attitudes like that.

 

A person who was reading this thread sent me an email suggesting I wasn't saved because, instead of giving a concrete answer, I said that ONLY GOD knows every fact about any given suicide, and it's HE who determines each person's final abode by His criteria He's set forth in His word. I both referred this obvious OSAS fan to Hebrews 6 and asked, "If things get tough for you, would you shoot yourself to escape it all, as you're fully convinced you'll go to heaven no matter what?"

This person gave me a personal interpretation of Hebrews 6 while answering the question "no" while giving the reason that shooting oneself is a sin. I don't think this person is so sure of OSAS as was first indicated.

To sum up my belief in this matter...I don't believe ANYONE, including the devil himself, can TAKE my salvation from JESUS and me. However, one can let go of his/her own salvation, as Hebrews 6 and other Scriptures state. I know my salvation is NOT a license for me to now deliberately sin w/o fear of punishment, but I know my UNINTENTIONAL sins are automatically forgiven.(But the Holy Spirit often causes me to see my accidental sin!)

I don't wanna get into an OSAS argument because I'm not gonna change my beliefs nor will many others change theirs, and the only product of such a discussion is hard feelings and confusion among less-experienced brethren. As I said earlier, I'm leaving those kinds of judgments to GOD. I'm not qualified to pass such judgments.

 

Let me ask you a question. If I were to tell an intentional lie to my wife; walk into the living-room and die of a heart-attack, without having time to ask God to forgive me for that sin, am I going to hell?

 

Amen brother, this sums it up. All too often people do not realize the seriousness of clinical depression.

It is often caused by nothing more than chemical imbalances that CAN often be corrected. Without medication, suicide CAN result. With medication and/or appropriate therapy, positive results can occur.

This IS a mental state.

You can no more hold that person liable than you can someone with alzheimer's who starts cursing God. I have seen it from people who were strong Christians. I don't think God is going to slam the door on them because the wiring breaks.

What say you, Doc Bob?

 

Please note, I am not talking about every individual situation. Like Robycop3 says, only God knows the situation.

 

Thank you Doctor Bob, I had no idea what you have been through and go through. I WILL be praying for you.

To keep your faith in God through this shows the power available to man through God's power.

I for one am very simpathetic towards a suicide. The person had to be at the absolute bottom.

That is the reason that in our state we have to take a 700 question "mental stability" test and be interviewed by a psychaitrist before we are allowed to carry a gun as an investigator. Even then, in the spur of a moment, I have seen someone turn their own weapon on themselves as a means of escaping the pain.

Assisted suicide? Absolutely not. Dr. K ought to be hanged.

By the way, I got a Christmas present last year that was a certificate for one free visit to Dr. K. . . Someone out there is a REAL friend.

 

Thanks for your post. Unfortunately most Christians, even pastors, have no concept of mental illness. They seem to associate it with a lack of faith or estrangement from God.

They do not seem to understand that there are illnesses of the mind just like there are physical illnesses. Whereas they would encourage those who are physically ill to seek medical help they encourage those who are mentally ill to "turn it over to God". In doing so they do a great disservice to those who suffer from mental illness. Thankfully in the last few years great strides have been made in the treatment of mental illnesses.

I had a friend who had suffered for about 30 years from bi-polar illness [once called manic depressive]. He was taking lithium which causes extensive weight gain and had become incontinent. He took his life about two months ago. There is no doubt in my mind that he is in the presence of God.

 

Well put, OldRegular. Many with a D.Min. or Th.D. make the mistake of thinking that they have an M.D. This often does the Body of Christ harm where they, in their honest but significant error, attempt to do good.

 

I had a roommate in bible college my senior year who commited suicide in our room. I believe that he was a Christian, by his own testimony. I don't presume to know his heart but if he genuinely accepted Christ as his Savior, then he is in heaven. If there is no act that I can do to get me into heaven, then there is no act that I can do to get me out of heaven. I believe that 1 John 5 and John 10 both teach this, and I don't see any indication in Scripture that suicide is not included in this.

 

It really is a shame. You'll find plenty on this board who will not only disagree but will do so in a bombastic thoroughly unChrist-like way.

Mental illness is real. Anyone who disagrees, even if he be well-meaning, has no place as a shepherd of God's people.