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Comparing the KJV and the Geneva

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by natters, Aug 21, 2004.

  1. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Why would I want to seek a church that does not use the KJV? After all, this Bible has met my needs since I was first born again. What would be the point of seeking another Bible when the KJV is sufficient to meet my needs?
     
  2. Michael52

    Michael52 Member

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    None, if that is what you are led to do. [​IMG]
     
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    All this talk about the Latin Vulgate ignores the fact that the Septuaguint has been in use for a couple of milennia and is still preferred in some circles:

    "But if the texts coincide so on all the important points, why do the Greek and Aramaic translations hold greater authority for Orthodox Christians than the Hebrew original? Because the Greek and Aramaic translations have been preserved free of corruption in the Church of Christ by the grace of God and the struggles of grace-bearing men whereas the Hebrew text in the Jewish community was saved by technical means.

    When the verses of the Bible were copied by Christian scribes, the scribe himself, being a child of the Church, a participant in the Church's divine life, knowing the Truth, did not make grave errors in the transcribed text; those who listened to that text, to whom he presented his transcribed book, would not have overlooked any distortion of the meaning of the holy words to which the Church is so attentive. In the Hebrew community, the text was transcribed by Jews who did not know the fullness of the Truth. Many of the verses of the Bible which speak of the coming of Christ or of the other mysteries of the Christian Faith were not understood by them. They themselves, working with mistakes of transcription, were not able to arrive at a correct understanding of the text, nor were the Jews who listened to them able to correct them. Having lost its grace, the Jewish community did not have a built-in, living corrective for correcting its entrusted text — as had the Church of Christ. Therefore, in the work of preserving the holy texts, the Jews relied only upon natural human means which are prone to error."

    — Bishop Nathanael of Vienna and Austria
     
  4. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Me, too! I did not see the Genvea Bible in many churches anywhere. [​IMG]
     
  5. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    What percentage of Geneva Bible in church today?
     
  6. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    I doubt that there are any churches that actually use the Geneva Bible today. This is just a tool the KJV opponents use in an attempt to discredit KJVO churches.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Where have we heard this before!?

    HankD

    [ October 02, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You're probably right. Can't say I've heard of one.

    Ancient/historic versions began with the Greek/Hebrew, Latin, Syriac, etc.

    A number of modern versions have been translated since the English language evolved.
    Tyndale
    Geneva
    AV
    RSV
    ASV
    NIV
    NKJV
    NASB
    and hundreds more

    There may be churches that use or prefer or even recommend one of them.

    Only the KJV only sect smear and discredit the other modern versions and claim only theirs is the perfect and "only" Word of God.

    Never met a Geneva-only or NASB-only.
     
  9. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Hank said:

    "Where have we heard this before!?"


    Thought you would enjoy that, Hank.

    The Geneva is still in print and available online, which means someone has an interest in it.
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Makes me wonder if Bishop Nathanael is any relation to Peter Ruckman to come up with the same pollyanna type logic.

    HankD
     
  11. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Bishop Nathaniel was a Russian Orthodox priest.

    http://gnisios.narod.ru/nathanaelbible.html

    The Septuaguint is still the preferred OT for the Greek Church, which, BTW, is the repository of the the Byzantine NT. Go figure.
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps because the NT writers chose the LXX when quoting the OT.

    HankD
     
  13. Archangel7

    Archangel7 New Member

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  14. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Actually, the Geneva Bible does contain Luke 17:36. The verse reads "Two shalbe in the fielde: one shalbe receiued, and another shalbe left."

    The Geneva also uses the word "humble" in James 4:6. The verse reads "But the Scripture offereth more grace, and therefore sayth, God resisteth the proude, and giueth grace to the humble."

    These "difference" are not at all what is claimed. How can someone base an argument on what is not at all factual?

    The above Geneva Bible quotes come from the online version available at StudyLight.org.
     
  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, the original 1560 edition of the Geneva Bible does not have Luke 17:36. The edition of the Geneva Bible at the studylight.org web site is a 1587 edition that is based on the revision of the Geneva Bible made by Laurence Tomson. That is one of the changes made by Tomson.

    Is the KJV actually better, clearer, or more accurate than the Geneva Bible at every word and every verse?

    Gen. 1:28c
    fill the earth (Geneva)
    replenish the earth (KJV)

    Exod. 23:17c
    the Lord Jehovah (Geneva)
    the Lord GOD (KJV)

    Job 30:29
    a companion to the ostriches (Geneva)
    a companion to owls (KJV)

    Isa. 7:25c
    sheep (Geneva)
    lesser cattle (KJV)

    Isa. 34:5
    Edom (Geneva)
    Idumea (KJV)

    Zeph. 2:14
    pelican (Geneva)
    cormorant (KJV)

    Matt. 23:24
    strain out (Geneva)
    strain at (KJV)
     
  16. natters

    natters New Member

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    Keith M said "These "difference" are not at all what is claimed. How can someone base an argument on what is not at all factual?"

    As Logos1560 said, you are comparing against a later edition. The comparisons I presented are ones I verified myself the original 1560 Gevena (or the Whittingham 1557 NT which was used for the Geneva with very minor alterations). The reprints I used are the 1560 facsimile reprint put out by the University of Wisconsin Press in 1969, and a photocopy of Bagster's 1841 English Hexapla for the 1557 NT.

    Luke 17:36 is not present in either the 1557 NT or the 1560 Geneva.

    In Jude 4:6, "afflicted" is in the 1557 but changed to "humble" in the 1560, but the change I posted the verse comparison for was "the Scripture" vs. "he", which is in both the 1557 and the 1560.

    I am unable to find an online version of the 1560, but I will keep looking.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    The examples chosen are obviously in favor of the Geneva reading. So I would opt for them.

    But am sure there are others where the AV's choice of words would be better than the Geneva.

    And many of the AV will "sound" better to us, since we were raised on the AV sound.
     
  18. natters

    natters New Member

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    Psalm 119:140 (KJV) "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it."

    Psalm 119:140 (Geneva 1560) "Thy word is proved most pure, and they servant loveth it."

    In the KJV, God's word is "very pure", while in the Geneva is it the "most pure".

    ;)
     
  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    "me'od" is a "superlative" (in English we would add "most" or simply an "est" ending) so we would say "purest" if we were using the "purest" translation technique . . [​IMG]
     
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