Comparing two similar parables

The parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30) is indeed similar to the parable of the minas or pounds (Luke 19:11-27). (The talent and mina were well-known forms of money, but the talent was worth much more than the mina.) The first two slaves in the parables produced fruit, and Jesus commended both of them with the same words: “Well done, good and faithful slave” (Matthew 25:21, 23). The third slave hid his talent in the ground (compartmentalized it), and Jesus called him wicked and lazy (Matthew 25:26). Jesus also commanded that the slave be cast into the place of eternal judgment (Matthew 25:30). I think this third slave represents the same type of non-Christian who pretends to be a Christian that the thorny soil represents in the parable of the sower and soils. Craig Blomberg, an associate professor of New Testament at Denver Seminary, discussed the third slave as described in Matthew 25: 24-27:

(Blomberg, “Matthew,” The New American Commentary, vol. 22, 1992, pages 373-374)

Notice the word “hesitating” in the above comment. Remember that Elijah asked the people at Mount Carmel, “How long will you hesitate between two opinions?” (1 Kings 18:21) The “thorny soil” people hesitate (procrastinate) until they make the willful decision to neglect their salvation. Later they hesitate in a different sense as the word is slowly choked. Oknēros is translated as “lagging behind” in Romans 12:11. There is never an overt rejection, but the word they tried to compartmentalize becomes more and more uncomfortable for them. Spiritually perceptive people notice that these pretenders are lagging behind others who genuinely became Christians at the same time that the pretenders made their false professions of faith. The pretenders continue to commit sins of ignorance due to their depravity, and a gradual hardening process continues until their physical deaths.

Concerning the parable of the talents, many people think the talents represent abilities. That is an incorrect conclusion. The talents were distributed to each person “according to his own ability” (Matthew 25:15). Obviously, abilities would not be distributed according to abilities already possessed.

The talent hidden by the third slave represents the word of God received from the Master while under the special conviction of the Holy Spirit. The third slave never made an ultimate, final decision to commit his life to the Master in repentance and faith. The word was not invested in other areas of his life. The “worry of the world” (Matthew 13:22) choked the word. Just as the third slave hid the talent, so the “thorny soil” people try to hide Jesus in one part of their lives rather than allowing Jesus to take control of every part of their lives.

The apostle Paul described himself and other Christians with him as “servants of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God” (1 Corinthians 4:1). Paul also said that he wanted “to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel” (Ephesians 6:19). By willfully neglecting and thereby rejecting the gospel seed, the “thorny soil” people prove themselves to be very poor stewards of it.

 

Jesus addressed the issue of parables in Matthew 13:10-17, And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. "For whoever has, to him [more] shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, `You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.' "But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. "For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

 

James, you said the following:

I think it is obvious that the third slave was unsaved. He will be cast into “the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 25:30). Christians aren’t cast into hell.

Notice in Matthew how the place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth always refers to hell:

Matthew 8:12 – “But the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 13:42 – “And will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 13:50 – “And will throw them into the furnace of fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 22:13 – “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’”

Matthew 24:51 – “And shall cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; weeping shall be there and the gnashing of teeth.”

James, you asked why Christ would call an unsaved man His servant. I think every human being ever created fits into God’s sovereign plan whether they like it or not. God uses both the elect and the non-elect to accomplish His sovereign will. In that sense, every human being is a servant of God. The elect are willing servants, and the non-elect are unwilling servants. In a similar sense, non-elect Jews are referred to as “sons of the kingdom” in Matthew 8:12.

There are some interesting points of comparison between the parable of the talents and the parable of the sower and soils.

1. In both parables, not all elect people bear the same amount of fruit. (Matthew 13:23 – hundredfold, sixty, thirty; Matthew 25:20-23 – five, two)
2. In both parables, the non-elect people bear no fruit.
3. In both parables, the non-elect people receive or experience something but do not whole-heartedly accept it. They don’t allow the risky investment of their lives.

With both the thorny soil and the slave who buried his talent there is a willful neglect. The author of Hebrews asked a rhetorical question regarding this type of willful neglect (Hebrews 2:3a): “How can we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?” The Greek word for “neglect” ( ameleō ) is also used in Matthew 22:5 to describe those who “paid no attention” to an invitation to a wedding feast. In Matthew 22:3 we find that these people were “unwilling to come.” They were sent to the place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (hell). This type of intentional neglect of the gospel is a willful, unpardonable sin.

[ October 20, 2004, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: koreahog2005 ]

 

James, you said the following:

There are no enemies discussed in the parable of the talents. I think you are referring to the enemies in the parable of the minas (Luke 19:14, 27). The reason for this parable is given in Luke 19:11. It was because Jesus was near Jerusalem. The enemies refer to the Jews in general who did not want Him to reign over them. Of course, there were individual Jews who accepted Him as their Lord (illustrated by the first and second slaves in the parable). Judgment did come to the Jews in general in 70 AD. The Romans attacked Jerusalem, and the temple was destroyed.

James, you also said:

In the parable the first servant comes. Later the second servant comes. Still later the third servant comes. They are not all judged at the same time. There is a sequence. The third slave is an enemy, and as in the parallel account in Matthew 25:28-30, what he has is taken from him, and he suffers judgment.

James, you asked me about who goes to hell:

John 3:36 – “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
If a Christian’s spirit can go to spiritual Hades (hell), then he does not have eternal life. In spiritual Hades people experience wrath, not life in the sense mentioned in John 3:36.

John 5:24 – “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
A Christian has already passed out of spiritual death into spiritual life. He cannot suffer the temporary judgment of spiritual Hades or the eternal judgment of the lake of fire.

Finally, you said the following:

All those whose spirits were in spiritual Hades are thrown into the lake of fire in their resurrection bodies (Revelation 20:14), and no Christians are involved in this last resurrection. The Christians' bodies will have already been resurrected before the non-Christians' bodies are resurrected and thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 17:14; 19:8; 19:14; 20:4-5). Hades sometimes refers to the grave (Acts 2:27; Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55). The bodies of Christians experience the grave, but their spirits do not. Paul said he would prefer “to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8). In the parable of Luke 16:23, however, Hades is seen as a place of torment for the evil rich man, whereas the poor man Lazarus was in “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 16:24), and there was a great chasm between the two places (Luke 16:26). Jesus told one of the thieves that they would both be in Paradise that same day (Luke 23:43). Thus, there is a temporary place of fellowship and a temporary place of punishment. The spirits of Christians go to the place of fellowship, not to the place of punishment. Jesus went to a place of punishment (a spiritual prison) just before His resurrection to proclaim victory and judgment (1 Peter 3:19).

It's bedtime in Korea.

[ October 20, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: koreahog2005 ]

 

Kreahog says; John 3:36 – “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
If a Christian’s spirit can go to spiritual Hades (hell), then he does not have eternal life. In spiritual Hades people experience wrath, not life in the sense mentioned in John 3:36.

John 5:24 – “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
A Christian has already passed out of spiritual death into spiritual life. He cannot suffer the temporary judgment of spiritual Hades or the eternal judgment of the lake of fire.

Sir, you have made conclusions about these two passages which the text does not support. While true that a Christian CANNOT lose his salvation nor spend ETERNITY in hell, you jump the boat when you say that he cannot suffer temporary judgement for his unfaithfulness and disobedience to his LORD. These Scriptures do not support your theory.
Kindly support your theory with relevant Scripture. K?
In His service;
Jim
BTW where is it written that the unbelieving and fearful cannot enter the Kingdom of Christ? Just because you fear this Truth or disbelieve it does not make it untrue. Jesus made it quite clear that only the faithful will receive permission to enter His Kingdom. We are not talking about salvation in eternity but REWARDS for the faithful. And those rewards are just as temporary as the punishments we are telling you about.

 

Av1611jim, a Christian can certainly suffer judgment (punishment, discipline) before he physically dies. 1 Corinthians 11:32 says, “But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord in order that we may not be condemned along with the world.” Hebrews 12:5-11 mentions the discipline of the Lord that yields “the peaceful fruit of righteousness.” According to Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 all Christians must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. At that time, according to 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, the Christian is safe, but the quality of his work will be revealed to determine specific rewards. It's his bad works that are burned, not the Christian himself (1 Corinthians 3:15). After he physically dies, however, the Christian immediately goes to be with the Lord. There is no purgatory or spiritual Hades for Christians. They had already passed from death to life before they physically died. Their treatment immediately after physical death is quite different from that experienced by non-Christians. John 5:24 says that Christians do not “come into judgment”; that is, Christians do not experience the punishment in Hades described in the case of the evil rich man in Luke 16:23 or in the lake of fire.

 

I must agree with Dr Bob on his posts about parables. The parables were stories intended to illustrate a doctrine, but the parables were not intended to be doctrine themselves, nor were they intended to be factual stories, nor replacements for established doctrine. Though I don't think James Newman is guilty of this here, I generally get concerned when someone uses the "all scripture is given by inspiration" verse to imply that every single textual scribble is intended to be doctrinal. This leads to lack of contexual understanding, and misapplying of scriptural teachings."All we like sheep" is very dangerous (not to mention messy) without the corresponding "have gone astray". Don't get me wrong, I love sheep, especially when eating gyros.

 

Should we continued sinning under the grace? - Romans 6:1-2 God forbid.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I disagree.

All parables always are doctrine, period. Because, all of these are teaching about our spiritual life, that 2 Tim. 3:16 telling us, these are reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Obivously, all parables are invlove 2 Tim. 3:16. All of these are part of doctrines. We must give heed attention the instructions and warnings of the parables, and to obey what Christ saying.

Many think, these parables seem not important or not apply to us. Wrong. All of these always are important for every individuals of us, to apply our spiritual life with instructions and warnings. We cannot neglect these parables, we should listen and obey what Christ saying in the parables.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I agree that we have to be careful in how we use parables. Maybe we can all agree that we should not base our doctrinal belief systems solely on parables. At the same time, we can acknowledge the fact that parables are rich illustrations of spiritual truths. On this thread it is obvious that we don't all agree on what those truths are. I've got to go teach a class. I'll check this interesting thread later.

 

Newman,

I agree with you, all parables are doctrines. No way we can afford to neglect them.

Christ taught on the kingdom is very important for everyone ought to know, because we all have two choices where we will going right after we died - either heaven or hell, that we shall spend eternality. No one shall escape from it. That why Christ teaching us to consider the eternality things on our souls, that we cannot escape from it.

Obivously, all parables are important doctrines, no way we can neglect them.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Jesus addressed the issue of parables in Matthew 13:10-17, And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. "For whoever has, to him [more] shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, `You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.' "But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. "For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

 

gb;
And this is exactly what we have come here to say.
Jesus taught TRUTH in the form of parables so that His sheep may understand what He is teaching. Those who are NOT His sheep will be confused. Now, if you claim to be one of His sheep, then you must approach ALL Scripture with a prayerful attitude asking for the opening of your eyes and ears that you may understand. Agreed? If so, then why not here also?
When I first encountered this teaching, my first thought was NO WAY !
But then the Gentle Holy Spirit reminded me I ought to never reject out of hand anything from the Scriptures. I ought to pray for understanding.
For years I have had trouble reconciling the warnings and conditionals with the assurances and unconditionals. Then again, I was reminded that, there are NOT two ways to understand Scripture. God is NOT that way.
When faced with two schools of thought, there are THREE ways to understand it. As God is three in one. Therefore, if one is true and the other is true, then the TRUTH must be both. In other words;
Could there be another answer I have not considered?
Indeed, there is. BOTH sides have 'glommed' onto a PART of the whole.
The whole, when fully understood, clarifies and reconciles the "warnings and conditionals with the assurances and unconditionals".
Study with an open mind and heart, praying for and searching for the Lord's will, and I believe, if you are a sheep, you will get it.
Not ALL of Jesus' teaching are easy to swallow. In fact MOST are completely FOREIGN to us. Your FLESH will rebel at EVERY one of them. But take heart. If you are a sheep, your heart will find peace and safety in Him.
In His service;
Jim