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Concerts to resume after fight at church club

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J.D., May 28, 2008.

  1. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    God is blessing what we're doing...and we're honoring God (and not violating His Word) in what we're doing. If it bothers you, sorry. We've gotten an OK from a higher Authority than a BB member.


    Agreed.
     
  2. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

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  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The proof of a ministry is in the disciples the people are making. Too many churches today are just following another fad that may bring people in the door but do little or nothing to actually reach people and help them to make more disciples. In 2001 I spoke with a man who is in charge of church planting in a region of the US for the one of the Baptist denominations and he told me that good entertainment is the reason people will come to a new church. I saw the fruit of his life. His life showed what he was really like. He was soon to be divorced. I saw how he treated his wife and what he told me as important. I told him that people will come because genuine Christians were there, not because of good entertainment. The best entertainment is found on TV and done by people who do it professionally. At one time I lived in a large city and found out what percentage was devoted to TV and radio compared to missions by a particular church. It was absolutely shocking. There was more money devoted to radio and TV than all other ministries combined in that church. Anyone in a church like that knows that radio and TV brings in a lot of money from Christians. Years ago the pastor of that church divorced his wife and married the church secretary. In that same area I pastored a church and noticed that there were people who sent that church money but when it came time to ask for help they came to the local church. People will give money to TV preachers and do anything in the local church. In that particular area the pastors noticed how much was being given to that church through TV. TBN was a money making machine for that church. That is one of the reasons why Rick Warren will not broadcast his church services. He wants the local people to attend a local church and not take away from the local ministries.

    When I read the Bible I see nothing about a touchy feely ministry but rather men and women devoted to Christ in such a way that they are willing to give their very lives for Him. They served and met people's needs in a tangible life impacting way. When I see how Jesus called His disciples he did not give five easy steps to follow Him. He said, "Come follow me." Too many preachers are soft peddling the gospel and not as Jesus did.
     
    #43 gb93433, May 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2008
  4. Emily25069

    Emily25069 New Member

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    I guess my big question, especially to Cutter, is how do we know that our traditional baptist worship isnt worldly?

    I was singing along to a favorite hymn the other day (oh that will be .. glory for me.. glory for me.. glory for me.. ) and I got to thinking..

    Is this AT ALL what "church music" sounded like in the days of the early church?

    My guess is... not at all.

    So what makes some styles acceptable, and some not?

    In my opinion, Christian hard rock IS an oxymoron. But that is my opinion.

    I think music is its own language and there is something very evil sounding about rock.

    On the other hand, there are a handful of Jars of Clay and Newsboys tunes that I really enjoy-and even joyfully dance to while Im cleaning around the house, and I see nothing wrong with that, though it would be strange singing those songs in church.

    But what makes happy southern sounding hymns an acceptable form of worship? Why is THAT the only way to worship in Spirit and in Truth?

    Thats the part that Im stuck on. My guess is that hymns during biblical times sounded a lot more like chanting, but I could be wrong.

    And lets talk about dancing for a moment. I suppose this is an area where I make a really lousy baptist because I just dont understand the "dancing isnt biblical" argument at all.

    Is there a scripture where dancing is condemned?
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Most of it is because the people do not share their faith and make disciples. You cannot worship the God you do not know.


    For me it sounds like junk music. It reminds me of hillbilly music.

    Chating was done for the purpose of being heard in a large building. If they met in houses I see no purpose of that.

    There is a very good one in Eccl. 3:4, "A time to weep and a time to laugh; A time to mourn and a time to dance."

    Some Baptists claim to believe the Bible and be obedient to it. Some cherry pick the verses they like while other believe the entire Bible. Some interpret scripture correctly while others listen to their favorite ignorant preacher who thinks he knows and doesn't, but tells them what they want to hear.
     
  6. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

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    For me it is a matter of taste. If your taste is different, so be it. There is another thread on the board that addresses "separation." I like to keep the things that I have always identified with worship and the Lord seperate from the things that I identify with the world. Especially, the old life I was saved from. So, it is all a matter of familiarity. If I see things taking place or hear the sound in the church or in the name of worship, that I identify with the old man, the one Christ Jesus saved me from, then a red flag goes up.
    1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
    There are alot of uncertain sounds coming from the 21st century church that have me confused and bewildered, that's why I prefer to continue in what I have learned and identify with being true worship.
     
    #46 Cutter, Jun 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2008
  7. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    Looks to me like the problem actually came alot sooner than that..........the problem came when they decided to have metal bands. Sorry folks, but this kind of behavior is and always has been associated with metal music.

    AJ
     
  8. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    Yes, but never before in history, has a music genre been created totally out of rebellion and based on defiance, and with the intent of promoting sex and drugs.....we are never going to be godly when we are immatating the worlfd.

    AJ
     
  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I really do not see that all that much rebellion in Christ but rather fed up with the hypocrisy and lack of commitment to Christ by their parents and leaders. I feel as though I see the complacency of those above 40 who are sitting back spending money on entertainment and sports rather then leading the way. They watch TV rather than leading their children. They put their parents to shame in drive toward excellence in academics. They have high expectations for themselves and the companmies they gop to work for. They do not like unethical companies like their parents put up with. The young people I am around who are on fire for Christ give a much different picture than what we see in their parents. Those young people are not interested in a pep rallies and conferences to work people up, but rather they want to see an example and not a corporate pep rally.

    Baptists for many years have montiored the world and have reacted to their ways rather than just simply following what scripture teaches. They shouild not be reactionary but rather change the world by making disciples. Young peeole ar enot interested in religious political machines but rather men and women walking with God. They ar enot loyal to denominations that are nothing more than politics but rather Christ.

    Too many Baptists are swayed by the world and do not lead the way. Too many are followers and not disciple makers. Too much nonsense and igorance from the pulpits and not enough time spent with God. Too many pep rally conferences instead of getting down to business with God.

    When I talk with my daughter she is not at all interested in what so many people my age like. She asks the tough questions. She is not interested in being around people who are lazy and want a pep rally at church. She is interested in reaching people and knowing answers to the tough questions.

    Young peole will listen to older Christians who have truthful answers rather than complaints. I talk with young people all the time. Many have come to my office because they know I will not give them a bunch of jargon and pat answers. I wish you could spend just one day with me in my office and hear what young people say in class and in my office. I am encouraged. The discussions I have with them are much more serious than what I remember years ago with young people.
     
  10. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Good post....
    And noone, I mean noone wants to see me dance!!!

    Ewwww!
     
  11. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    Yep, us Baptists are lazy and ignorant, and we need to look to our children for wisdom. :rolleyes:

    AJ
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Don't laugh.. I have seen it too.. God is raising up a generation that will stand strong for him. I have seen a lot of tired warriors lately that have fought for truth for yrs.

    I have also seen a lot of smug Christians that are satisfied with status quo...

    But I have seen a spark in the youth that is refreshing.

    Today's youth generation doesn't settle for mediocrity... they want real results...not fluff.

    Isa 11:6
    (6)
    The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
     
  13. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The fact is that we have one more generation in the church than we did 30 years ago. Is the church in America doing better or worse?

    Sometime I would challenge you to do as I once did to get parents out of their homes and into the communities. Send the parents and youth together to go door to door and see who is most afraid and who has the most excuses. You would be amazed at the number of local pastors gave me many of the same excuses as the adults.

    Sometime study the history of missions and see the ages of those who had the most impact. Take a look at John Mott and Hudson Taylor.

    How old was Jesus when he spoke in the temple? What did Paul tell Timothy about age?

    Am I wrong to think that Jesus spoke quite positively about children? It seems that when he spoke to adults that often he compared them to children.

    Matt 18:3 and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


    Matt 19:13, 14, "Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."


    Matt 21:15, 16, “But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that He had done, and the children who were shouting in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they became indignant 16 and said to Him, "Do You hear what these children are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, `Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies You have prepared praise for Yourself'?"


    Mark 10:13, 14, “And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.


    Luke 18:16 But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    You are absolutely right. They are not interested in the staus quo. It is refrsshing to me.

    Glad to hear how you feel about the youth. I have had some incredible experiences with youth today. What I have experienced with them makes me think about my own walk with God.

    I teach at a university and the discussions I have had have been some are the best ever.
     
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