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Confronting Pagans

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Nov 26, 2011.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Mar 4, 2011
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    Here is a snippet from a Pagan poster.

    “But I don't see how anyone could ever convince me. Maybe proof, or even a compelling philosophy would be enough. So, I would like you guys to try to convert me to Christianity. Here's a few of my problems with it.”

    And here was my response.

    I have “bolded” your questions, and then followed each of them with the response.

    Why Christianity? Why not Buddhism? Why not Islam?
    All other religions provide a works based system, where you earn your way to heaven. Christianity provides a faith based system where Jesus bought you your ticket, provided you believe in Jesus with all your heart as the Christ and Son of God. Jesus demonstrated He is the truth by rising from the dead.

    An omniscient being in a universe is incapable with freewill. If a being is omniscient then it already knows what I did before I did it and that would mean I had no choice in it at all. It depends on how you define “omniscient.” If omniscient means knowing everything past, present and future, then the definition is not biblical. So your objection is with a fictional supposedly omniscient god. But if you define “omniscient” as God knowing everything He chooses to know, then you define “omniscient” biblically. Thus God can forgive sins and remember them no more forever. He can look into a person’s heart and know the person’s inner thoughts and motives, or He can choose not to look into the person’s heart, and test the person to demonstrate what the person actually believes in their heart, like He did with Abraham and Isaac. So if God has chosen not to know whether you will choose to trust in Christ, that provides you with freewill to accept or reject Christ.

    I don't see your point with there being evil in the world because of Gods gift of freewill. When God made us he put in every fault into us, there is no random effect he can give us that will make us create faults on our own.
    First lets come to an understanding of “evil.” Evil is something that goes against your expectations and desires. Thus if a tornado strikes your house, you would say that was an “evil” wind.

    But say two soldiers meet on a battlefield and one soldier shoots and kills the other. The soldier being killed would consider the act evil, whereas the one who made the shot would consider the shot good because it protected himself and his comrades in arms. So what is evil in your eyes (i.e. the tornado that destroyed your house) would not be evil in the eyes of God, just part of the harsh environment that sustains us yet gives us reason to seek God as a refuge. So with this insight, natural calamity would be considered evil by mankind, but would not be evil from God’s perspective. Next we have the evil men choose to do. They covet and steal, and they know it is wrong because they do not want their stuff stolen. Here you argument is with whether God is omnipotent, whether He can create a purview where we make choices not dictated by our past. Whether we can do again what we have done, or walk away from the past and try something new. I believe we can. I believe “exhaustive determinism” is a fiction. And the bible says things happen by chance, i.e. not prearranged.

    If I choose good actions i still am highly likely to get bad things to happen to me, what is the sense in that? Why wouldn't you reward the good people and make sure the sinners don't hurt the others. This is the generic question, why did God do this and not that. The very concept of God is He does as He pleases and He reveals His choices to us, but does not tell us why He made those choices. Here your argument is with God’s sovereignty, with you limiting God to what seems right in your eyes. In your view there are “good people” but since everyone is a sinner God does not see it your way. He will provide justice for all, and mercy for the chosen ones who trust in Jesus. That is the plan, but do not expect justice in this life, only in the next.

    Heaven and hell also doesn't make sense to me. I can live a perfect life giving to charity, helping every person I can, and never hear of "God's word" and I would end up in hell. But, I could kill millions and millions of people and as long as I believe in Jesus and God I automatically go to heaven.
    Yes those who die in unbelief go to “hell” where they receive perfect justice; they are punished for their misdeeds. And yes, killers can turn to Jesus and receive forgiveness, but it God who accepts or rejects their faith, so a hypocrite phony will not fool God. So going to heaven is not automatic if you profess to others you believe in Jesus, you must belief from the heart in the eyes of God.

    I have a problem with the laws put forth by the Lord. If I work on a Sabbath I should be stoned? If I am disobedient to my parents I shall be tied to a tree and stoned?
    The law of Moses no longer applies, so for you to have a problem with it is odd. Why not have a problem with the “Law of Christ.” We are under grace, not the Law.

    Please go through the book of Matthew, and paraphrase every command or direction given by Christ, there are about 75 of them. Then ask yourself; do I have a problem with one of these?

    Lastly(Not of my objections but of what I am willing to type), I don't understand the significance of Jesus, God created himself in human form, sacrificed himself in human form, then resurrected himself for what? To take away the bad sins and allow people access to heaven? If he really wanted to, and if he was omnipotent, he would just forgive the sins and be a more reasonable God.
    This is a restatement of the generic question, why did God choose to do this and not that. See answer above.
  2. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Mar 1, 2004
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    I am setting here smiling thinking this out to stir the pot for some. :tongue3: It will be interesting to see if someone jumps on some of those responses.
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator

    Jun 30, 2000
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    Stop this in the bud while I ask the moderators to evaluate continued unrepentent heresy and demeaning God as espoused by Van.
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