confused about Calvin (Page 21) Round two

You evaded again. Why do they choose as they do?

You can't answer. That inability reveals a fatal flaw in your belief and proves it beyond question to be unbiblical.

I believe you know the right answer but admitting it will require you to acknowledge that you are wrong... something you aren't "willing" to do.

 

Scott J:

Thank you for clarifying the issue with "Me4Him"'s posts. You're right, he evades with numerous questions and oddly placed quotation marks. You never quite get an answer from his posts...

 

Thing is... when people willing to see the truth see someone evading and using dishonest tactics... it steers them to the other side.

ME is inadvertently providing a very good basis for someone seeking the truth of this matter to reject his position. That is possibly the one redeeming thing in my interactions with him so far... and possibly the only thing that makes enduring his questioning of my spirituality if not salvation worthwhile.

 

Evidently, you can't read either, I said:

THEY..CHOSE..TO..BELIEVE..BY..FAITH.

Many are called, but you can't explain "WHY" they are not all "CHOSEN".

Is God's calling at fault or their choice???

 

Thing is... when people willing to see the truth see someone evading and using dishonest tactics... it steers them to the other side.

ME is inadvertently providing a very good basis for someone seeking the truth of this matter to reject his position. That is possibly the one redeeming thing in my interactions with him so far... and possibly the only thing that makes enduring his questioning of my spirituality if not salvation worthwhile. </font>[/QUOTE]The problem is you're like most people, you "pick and chose" whatever suits you and and refuse to believe anything that contradict it, exactly what the Jews did in rejecting Jesus.

You say we don't have the "FREE WILL" to chose to believe "whatever", yet at the same time, do the very thing you say we don't have a choice in the matter.

And you accuse "ME" of being "mixed up"????

I think you need to take a "reality check", look around you, Jesus died for the sins of the whole world that the whole world "MIGHT BE" saved, but they are not, WHY???

 

The carnal mind can't comprehend the scripture, maybe that why my answers can't be "SEEN".

 

Jesus died for the sheep so they would be saved.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]God/Jesus wanted the "Whole world" in the "Flock", so how come they are not???

 

Evidently, you can't read either, I said:

THEY..CHOSE..TO..BELIEVE..BY..FAITH.</font>[/QUOTE] Apparently you have a comprehension problem so I will rephrase.

Why did they choose to believe by faith? Faith is a result. "Choice" is a means. What is the cause?

I can and have many times. God chooses the elect according to His good pleasure. He allows the others to follow their own will into destruction. He does not disallow the lost from choosing but He does ultimately cause believers to choose to believe.

Their choice as I have told you before.

Their choice is at fault... but that does not mean that the "choice" of believers should receive credit because we are saved. His choice gets that credit. It must else we have something "whereof to glory".

 

Jesus died for the sheep so they would be saved.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]God/Jesus wanted the "Whole world" in the "Flock", so how come they are not??? </font>[/QUOTE]You need to answer some questions including this one.

If it is God's perfect will that the "whole world" as in every individual would be saved then why are they not? Does man have the ability to thwart the perfect will of God?

 

Jesus died for the sheep so they would be saved.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]God/Jesus wanted the "Whole world" in the "Flock", so how come they are not??? </font>[/QUOTE]You need to answer some questions including this one.

If it is God's perfect will that the "whole world" as in every individual would be saved then why are they not? Does man have the ability to thwart the perfect will of God? </font>[/QUOTE]Is the whole world saved??

If not, then "God's will" in this area of salvation can't be "Sovereign".

God offers, but Man has the "FREE WILL" to accept or reject.

 

Actually that is completely untrue. It was my willingness to accept all of what scripture says first then form my opinion around it that caused me to change from a position similar to yours that I had been taught to the one I now hold.

If shown by you or anyone else a view that comes to a different conclusion while not creating contradictions within scripture then I am willing to listen. The fact that you haven't been willing to answer honest, direct questions has sufficiently demonstrated that you don't hold such a view.

Huh? Carnal man's will is not free in respect of his slavery to sin. But he does act on free will within the scope of his nature. Free will never enables someone to act outside of their nature. Cats don't fly... it isn't their nature. Cattle don't chase down prey... it isn't their nature. The natural man doesn't receive the things of the Spirit (ie faith, repentance) because it isn't their nature.

You can only "know" when you have been given the Spirit, ie regenerated.

Because God didn't intervene while they were headed willfully for a condemnation that they rightly deserved and had chosen by their own rebellion.

Your turn.

 

Oh no my friend... that is where you are so biblically off base.

If not, it means that you have misinterpretted those scriptures.

God is sovereign in everything or else He is not God.

God does make the offer. He does make an appeal to man both through the gospel and nature... and it is by this coupled with man's sin that the lost are rightly condemned.

But the natural man will reject this appeal because it is his nature to do so... it is there that God's will according to grace comes in and saves. God quickens the dead spirit... he frees us from the bondage and blindness of sin. The result is that we freely believe and repent.

Yes... but that isn't the question. The question is why will some believe while others do not.

I say it is because of God's grace... to be consistent, you must say that it is because of some goodness within the man apart from something God gave him.

 

Why pray, if God's sovereignty is in effect for "Everything", how's my opinion going to change YOUR future, or anyone elses, for that matter??

I teach as I'm taught, those who have ears to hear will know by the spirit it's not my words, those who don't have ears, won't hear/understand.

Joh 12:50 whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

People condemn the words of the spirit, without ever realizing just "WHO'S" words it is they condemn, Jews aren't the only ones to make that mistake.

 

Asking God to give someone an opportunity, or maybe another opportunity to be saved,is not interfering with their will,

God doesn't "interfer" with their will either, he only ask them, the "Will" to believe or not believe, confess they have sinned, and need to be saved, is a choice the person makes, not God.

FAITH come by hearing/believing, and not with the ears, but the "heart", but some people harden their hearts, close their ears/eyes to the Gospel.

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing,

Lu 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Calvin blames God for not issuing as much an "irresistable call" to the unsaved as to the saved, predestine them to hell, but the above parable says the "SEED" is not at fault for not growing, but the person,

Many are called, the seed is sowed "everywhere", so who's fault is it the seed doesn't grow, and only a "FEW" are "CHOSEN", Man's or God's.

Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The world is full of people who have "Chose" to believe faults doctrines, even in the churches, why do you think you're any different, why can't you be one of them and how are you going to know???

Catholic's believe they can "remit" sin to get someone out of "purgatory", but scripture says only "DEATH" can pay the wages of sin, I'm sure the Catholic are as "dogmatic" in their doctrine as you are about calvin's, but being dogmatic doesn't equal "TRUTH" or guarantee you're always right.

Being "dead set" (dogmatic) in your beliefs is the best way I know of to prevent the spirit from teaching.

And it's the reason why there are "faults doctrine", the spirit would correct them "IF" they had ears/heart to hear.

When you think Satan can't fool you, he's already got you fooled.