Featured Considering the problem of depression & discouragement!

So depression is judgement?

To borrow a few of Jim62's examples:

1. Elijah... I King 19

2. Moses... Num. 11:11-15

3. Christ... Matt. 26:37-3

Tell me what were the sins that were the cause of their despair.

 

You're the one who opened the worm can. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Well, now you know better.:tongue3::laugh:

Seriously, I think (though untrained, I think I've enough experience) you've got it right in your opening post.

 

So you slander my parents to illustrate your point? Oy! I guess you missed the two other threads filled with the same drivel ad nausum. I can't put the mind in a box.... The Bible never mentions mental illness.... Mental illness is immaterial..... Blah, blah, blah.

What about malaria? I've scoured my Bible but fail to find the word malaria anywhere. Malaria has killed millions of people around the world. Earliest mentions of the disease are found in ancient writings from around 2300 BC. Scientists were not able to identify it in the blood until the 19Th Century. Based on your and Fred's argument, folks were dying of sin and not malaria. Why? Because the Bible doesn't mention it and there was no way to test for its existence. It had to be Divine punishment because there was no evidence to prove otherwise. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

In the case of malaria, they were able to recognize symptoms - an established pattern of evidence that something was wrong. By accident or Providence Jesuit missionaries discovered the bark of the Peruvian tree Cinchona boiled into a tea was able to relieve the symptoms. For hundreds of years they treated an unseen illness with a chemical they did not understand and it worked.

As for my parents: My Momma died on my birthday. Thanks for dredging up that pleasant memory. My Papa is in a nursing home with dementia. He doesn't recognize me nor does he remember being married to Mama for 66 years. There's no way to test definitively for his illness so I guess in your world he is merely suffering the consequences of his sin.

 

Apparently you havent read my bio.....LOL. That is no excuse....I got friends coming over expecting clam cake sauce.

 

I apologize. I read your OP and have used much of the same providing in service training to mental health professionals. It's good stuff and worthy of discussion. Unfortunately, this is the third thread in as many weeks interrupted by someone who does not want to have a discussion. Maybe we can grab a cup of coffee and find a quiet corner to actually discuss the OP.

 

Like Ive said before padre, aint nothing funnier than a big-mouthed christian & more nasty ..... to think, momma attacks.....come on now, WWJD. "Yo Momma" ....certainly NOT!

 

Malaria is a physical illness which can be diagnosed with lab tests.

To date, there has never been a prognosis of 'mental illness' been established via lab tests.

 

Thats because the mind is too complex & the medical "if you want to call it a profession" is too stupid to diagnose it adequately....so I guess your excuse is just plain ignorance.

 

Malaria was first mentioned in writings from 2300 BC. That's a fact. Check the CDC's website. There was not a test for malaria until the 1800's. That, too is a fact. The CDC will back me on that also. You used two very important words, though.... TO DATE. There is not a lab test for mental illness TO DATE. There was not a lab test for malaria for at nearly 4000 years ! Using your argument, malaria was a result of sin until scientist came up with a lab test to prove it was an illness.

Nice re-write of Romans 14:23 "...for whatsoever is not of faith or lab test is sin."

 

Your reasoning is flawed due to one important factor that you keep forgetting.]

The mind is not a material thing and therefore cannot be diseased.

So while I can safely say there is no lab test to date that can prove mental illness, I can also attest, without reservations, that no future lab test will prove mental illness.

It is impossible to do a lab test on the mind.

 

Something I have learned over the years...

In the medical field diseases are discovered.
In the psychiatric field, disorders are invented.

 

I don't know why I'm doing this. The better part of 30 pages elsewhere on BB was spent
on this.
2Cor.4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us;
8
in every [way] having been troubled, but not having been hemmed in; having been perplexed, but not utterly at a loss;
9
having been persecuted, but not having been forsaken; having been thrown down, but not having been destroyed;
10
always bearing about the dying of the Lord Jesus in the body, so that the life of Jesus also might be revealed in our body.
11
For we who live are always being delivered to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus might also be revealed in our body.
Paul speaks of being "troubled, perplexed, persecuted, thrown down"...

Troubled
Original: θλίβω
Transliteration: Thlibo
Phonetic: thlee'-bo
Definition:
1. to press (as grapes), press hard upon
2. a compressed way
a. narrow straitened, contracted
3. metaph. to trouble, afflict, distress

Perplexed
Original: ἀπορέω
Transliteration: Aporeo
Phonetic: ap-or-eh'-o
Definition:
1. to be without resources, to be in straits, to be left wanting, to be embarrassed, to be in doubt, not to know which way to turn
2. to be at a loss with one's self, be in doubt
3. not to know how to decide or what to do, to be perplexed

Persecuted
Original: διώκω
Transliteration: Dioko
Phonetic: dee-o'-ko
Definition:
1. to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away
2. to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
a. to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
b. to pursue (in a hostile manner)
3. in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
a. to persecute
b. to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
4. metaph., to pursue
a. to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire

Thrown down
Original: καταβάλλω
Transliteration: Kataballo
Phonetic: kat-ab-al'-lo
Definition:
1. to cast down
a. to throw to the ground, prostate
2. to put in a lower place

While Paul and those with him did not come to the ultimate end of being trouble, etc.,he does not say they were totally delivered from those things.

Though they weren't hemmed in they were still troubled. (being distressed) or 'stressed'

Not utterly at a loss they still were perplexed. (experiencing doubt and embarrassed)

Not forsaken but still feeling mistreated.

Not destroyed but still 'cast down'.

There may be environmental, dietary, and other causes for much of the increase in some of these problems today. They didn't have pills ( as we know them) and psychiatrists. They also did not have the pollution we have. We know that later in the history of Rome that lead poisoning from the pipes supplying water caused much of what we call 'mental illness. I know.. that's why I said 'what we call...' My guess is Christians were not immune. Symptoms of lead poisoning are:
High blood pressure
Declines in mental functioning
Pain, numbness or tingling of the extremities
Muscular weakness
Headache
Abdominal pain
Memory loss
Mood disorders
Reduced sperm count, abnormal sperm
Miscarriage or premature birth in pregnant women
Irritability
Loss of appetite
Weight loss
Sluggishness and fatigue
Abdominal pain
Vomiting
Constipation
Learning difficulties
Most likely your Bible remedies would not have helped anyone's Mood disorders or irritability, which were not caused by sin in their lives.

 

The new DSM-IV has 374 disorders listed in it. If a psychiatrist cannot find a disorder to label someone with, they do have one in the manual that is a failsafe for them.... Unrecognized Disorder - when all other categories do not fit.

They gotta get the money out of you some way or another. ROFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcuhhJ1BaMk

 

My Bible tells me they were not distressed, yet you say they were?

Great... so you've got Paul and his company depressed. Now show us where he went to a psychiatrist or took mind altering drugs.

My Bible reveals to me that Jesus is the answer to all of mankind's problems. I guess yours must point to the psychiatrist?

 

no it does not. Your guess is wrong.
Is that your response to my 2cents worth?
I could be mistaken, but I thought I had some legitimate points which were posted in a respectful manner and warranted more than what looks to be a slough-off remark. Jesus is the answer to all of mankind's problems, but he is not the one that answers a 911 call for me if I need my appendicts taken out. He has given doctors who will be at the hospital.
Again Are you just going to slough off a serious, respectfully posted point?

 

You are mixing apples and oranges out of desperation.

 

freeatlast, watch that video I just gave a link to. It is nearly 2 hours, but has a lot of interesting info.

You should get a chuckle or two at some of the idiocy that the psychiatrists have people believing.

 

I am not desperate. It is interesting FAL that you presume to know my motives. I am making an attempt at respect in some legitimate questions for Stedfast Fred.
Is this all you have to offer me by way of an answer FAL? Do you think you can make an attempt at affording me the same courtesy?