Continuation with Jeremiah - Discussion not Book

After reading this post you are either confused or you are being dishonest. I quoted one aspect of your very long posts as a summary quotation of that whole post. My responses were always in keeping with YOUR WHOLE POST and I will prove it below.

I said no such thing! I repeatedly made a clear distinction between various aspects under the general unbrella term salvation demanding each aspect is a complete unit but has a chronological and logical relationship with all other aspects. One aspect is justification by faith and it is without works. However, another aspect is regeneration that produces good works. They are not to be confused with each other but both come under the unbrella term "salvation" and both have logical relationship with each other and in regard to time they are contemporaneous. Hence, where there is justification without works there is also regeneration producing works. The issue is the source of the works. Such good works are not inclusive of justification by faith but of regeneration.

I have told you this over and over and so there is no excuse to pretend that I made no distinction and provided no rational explanation of my position. However, that is precisely what you have done to justify yourself and that sir is the crux of dishonesty.

Where have I ever said that works are "an outpouring of faith"????? I have repeatedly stated that works are the product of regeneration never of justification by faith. I have only said where there is justification by faith there is also in addition to it a regenerative condition being manifested by "good works." I don't confuse the two but I don't separate them in regard to time application as they are contemporary. I don't contribute "works" as the cause or instrumental cause for either but rather "good works" is only the consequence of new nature by new birth. I don't place justification or new birth as consequences of ordinances or sacraments. I don't place faith as consequental to sacraments/ordinances. I don't make faith, the word of God, sacraments/ordiances to be efficatious by any church. All these things are characteristic of Catholic soteriology not mine and anyone with eyes in their head can see clearly they are not one and the same but polar opposites and that is precisely the point which I demanded a "yes" or "no" from you to either embrace or deny one or the other instead of trying to play the game of "you don't understand what the Catholic church teaches" or "you are confused" etc.

You know fully well that my position is that works on the part of the justified, including church membership, ordinances or in your case "sacraments" play no part whatsoever in obtaining entrance into heaven or securing eternal life or passing any future judgement. You know it! You know that I believe that justificaition by faith and regeneration obtain eternal salvation RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT and that although "good" works always accompany regeneration (Eph. 2:8-10) they serve a completely different purpose in God's plan of "salvation" other than obtaining/securing eternal life.
You know fully well that this is not the case in Catholic Soteriology. In Catholic Soteriology YOUR WORKS serve a completely different purpose. Indeed, in Catholic Soteriology it is the church and its sacraments that serve to communicate justifying grace which without there is no securing/obtaining eternal life and heaven.

You know this, and you know that what I have presented is completely OPPOSITE to Catholic soteriology at this very point. However, you respond to my posts as though I don't understand Catholic soteriology in this point of difference between us and though I really don't make any clear and detailed distnction between justification without works and regeneration and though I confuse justification and regeneration or that I am denying one or the other. That sir is dishonesty and "these tactics are not those of a true broker for discussion."

Look at your careful choice of terms "but WANTED to be baptized." You are not denying that baptism is essential to salvation. You are only denying it is not essential IF and ONLY IF a person in good faith WANTS to be baptized but providentially is hindered. This is the kind of silly word games you play and such word games are the height of deception and dishonesty.

Rome's view of sacraments is identical in theological substance to ceremonial ordinances which were abolished by the New Covenant.

Your explanation is simply not based upon the facts. Well, If I have not explained to you by this point in this post then no explanation will help you.

I selected your closing statement in Post 12 because it was a conclusion to your whole post. I did not want to quote your WHOLE post. You certainly did make your position clear about "salation is a gift of God bestowed on us by faith" IF it is interpreted by your WHOLE post.

For example, take the phrase that just preceded your statement in post 12 followed by Jeremiahs assertion and your response:


If Faith is not expressing itself then you must question that faith. ...... Which is really what catholics are speaking about when it comes to works.

Quote:
when you add any act of man as a requirement of salvation, it is tainted. - Jeremiah


Any act that man does to merit salvation apart from acting in faith I would agree. However, sanctification is an important part of our faith.

This is how you statement must be defined by its immediate preceding context. This is why I charged you with defining "faith" to be "Faithfulness."

Jeremiah charged you with adding works as a requirement of salvation and you agreed with him that works do "merit salvation" just as long as they fit your requirment that works "acting in faith." You went on to say that "sanctification is...part of faith." That sir, demands that in your definition of "faith" EQUALS "faithfulness" or is inclusive of sanctification by works.

So, it is not true when you go on to say:

 

My responses are dead on to your statements and you know it. Instead of bing a honest broker for Rome you are attempting to avoid the real issues by distracting readers with nonsensical claims that I don't understand Catholic Soteriology, I don't understand my own soteriology but am confused, I'm changing the subjects, I'm accusing you of things you don't believe, etc., etc. and other plain false accusations.

Stop playing silly word games. Stop making false accusations that I am confused and don't understand my own position or I don't understand your position. If anyone is confused or is not being an "honest broker" it is you.


If you are confused or misunderstood what I beleive then let me spell it out in language you cannot possibly misunderstand unless you intentionally are determined to pervert what I am saying.

1. Justification and regeneration are not the same in nature but occur at the same time and are both under the umbrella term "salvation."

2. Where there is justification by faith there is also regeneration as they co-exist but are different in nature and different aspects of salvation

3. Justification before God is "without works" but regeneration produces good works.

4. Justification has to do with your position "in Christ" in heaven but regeneration has to do with your spiritual condition on earth.

5. Regeneration produces good works or progressive sanctification which is neither part or parcel with justification by faith. Hence sanctification is inclusive of your works but that is not true of justification before God.

6. Regeneration, justification, progressive sanctification are all distinctly different in regard to their individual respective nature and logical relationship to each other but they do not exist apart from each other and their design and purpose is distinct from each other in the overall purpose of "salvation."


Don't forget #6 when you come back parsing what I have said.

Now, I do understand precisely what Rome teaches and let me spell it out in my own terminology.

1. The Catholic Church gives efficacy to the Word, sacraments and good works to those inside as well as outside the physical boundaries of the church.

2. There is no salvation apart from baptism except for those who would be baptized if they could be but are providentially hindered either by opportunity or instruction.

3. That justification by faith is not without works but is inclusive of our own good works rather than the product of regeneration through faithfulness or what is progressive sanctification completed in glorification.


Now, we can go forward and honestly deal with the differences or we can continue to play this silly word game and equally silly denial game.

 

All fine sounding accusations but where is the beef? I took your challenge on your post #12 and proved my point. Where is your evidence to back up any of your accusations???

I am the one who introduced regeneration in order to distinguish what I believe in contrast to what you believe about justification and your accusation that my definition of justificaiton was confused.

Don't you understand that in order to confront you wrong views of justification that the right views must be pointed out? Just because you didn't mention "regeneration" does not mean that my mention changes the subject but is necessary to define why your view of justification by works is erroneous.

Every one of your charges are completely baseless. The fact of the matter is that you want to determine the paradigm for discussion by restricting it to your own interpretative mold. Only a fool would stay within such boundaries to discuss DIFFERENCES of interpretation.

 

Again, accusation without evidence. It is also a false accusation as I produced the context of your statement in post 12 and showed that you defined justifying faith to be inclusive of works or what is the definition of "faithfulness"!

Again, your answer to Jeremiahs' assertion precedes and therefore sets forth the qualifying context for defining you statment which follows it. Here it is again - Here is the beef:

Quote:
when you add any act of man as a requirement of salvation, it is tainted. - Jeremiah

Any act that man does to merit salvation apart from acting in faith I would agree. However, sanctification is an important part of our faith. - TS


Jeremiah's assertion is clear as it is the same assertion I am making.

Your answer is equally clear as it proves the very ground for my charge that you define justification by faith as inclusive of faithfulness or works.

You admit that works do merit salvation just as long as they are not "APART FROM ACTING IN FAITH." You admit that this position is equal to "sanctification" as an important "PART OF FAITH."

Hence, the next statement you make when you say in response to Epheisans 2:8:

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Salvation is a gift of God bestowed on us by faith. You can't earn it. There is no contention here with the Catholic faith about this. However, does this mean we live in continual rebelion? No. Our faith affects our sanctification and our lives are submitted in obedience. - TS

When you say "you can't earn it" you mean precisely as you previously qualified in regard to works "APART FROM ACTING FAITH" but works not apart from acting faith "do merit salvation." Hence, works "do merit salvation" and this is "PART OF FAITH." Hence, you are ultimately defining Ephesians 2:8 "by grace are ye saved through faith" to be inclusive of FAITHFULNESS or works that are "PART OF FAITH."

You are the one playing games here. Either sanctification by works is "PART OF FAITH" or it is not! Which is it? Are you going to deny that sanctification by works = faithfulness to God???????????

Quit playing word games and be honest.

 

You my friend are a very dishonest and deceptive individual as far as I am concerned. I will have no further conversation with you.

 

One Post

MO

Justification + Sanctification brings about salvation = regeneration.

 

Gerhard, and Irenaeus also wrote this :

"True knowledge is [that which consists in] the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither receiving addition nor [suffering] curtailment [in the truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy; and [above all, it consists in] the pre-eminent gift of love, which is more precious than knowledge, more glorious than prophecy, and which excels all the other gifts [of God]." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:33:8 (A.D. 180).

hope that clears things up for you , God Bless, barry

 

Hello again TS, finally able to read through some of your posts.....I totally agree with your statement, but can you tell me what, in the RCC's view, does merit salvation? I quoted Ephesians 2:8-9--it is grace, a gift.....works [no matter how what when or where] cannot be involved in the salvation of ones soul by Scripture definition

We have a different view of definitions here.....the end goal of salvation IS Heaven--the one who does the saving WILL get us there! Sanctification is defined three different ways in the NT--by the Spirit, the Blood, and the Word.....the Spirit sanctifies us at Salvation, the Blood [judicial] at Salvation, the Word deals with our daily walk--our practical sanctification--this is what we do!
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
We must allow ourselves to be sanctified day by day--through the word and the Spirit working through the Word.....Now if you believe works have anything to do with our sanctification, I'd like to know what Scriptures you have to back that up.....again, I know what James says [faith without works is dead], he's only saying faith is an evidence of salvation, NOT a condition....

The word sanctify means: 1. In a general sense, to cleanse, purify or make holy.
2. To cleanse from corruption; to purify from sin; to make holy by detaching the affections from the world and its defilements, and exalting them to a supreme love to God.
We cannot do this on our own, it is NOT in our nature...this is a work of God in the life of a believer apart from salvation

The only knowledge I can have is what Scripture teaches...I was raised in a Church [I mentioned this] that doesn't believe in eternal security so Iknow the MO, and I'm telling you, it is NOT scriptural!! And it is NOT historic Christianity......couple questions...how long is everlasting life? Is that promised in John 3:16? Is God a liar? Now that's simple enough, isn't it? If that isn't enough, how about:

1 Peter 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Now if I believe God, our inheritance is incorruptible, undefiled, and doesn't fade away! And it is kept by the POWER OF GOD, not me or any Church....

Now I will say again, a person is either saved or they aren't, and it doesn't matter what I think etc.....you are right, God knows so I don't have to worry about it....let me ask you a question since you bring up Annanias and Sapphira--are you telling me they weren't saved? How do you know? You know the Bible speaks of a sin unto death--do you suppose that means eternal death? When you read the exploits of Lot and his daughters in the OT, would you consider him a Godly man? But the Book of Hebrews tells me he was a just man--made it into the faith "hall of fame".......I won't bother getting into the doctrines of Grace and election, but I will again repeat--salvation is a work of God, man has nothing to do with it or it is tainted....

This is Standard MO for Arminians and was my way of thinking for years......here is a simple thought process--if Salvation is by grace through faith, not works [remember something, faith itself is a fruit of the Spirit--the Bible says no man can come to the Father unless the Spirit first draws him]--how can you lose something you yourself can't "get" and then if you do lose it by doing something, how can you get it back? If a person can lose their salvation they would! How can we keep ourselves saved? We get angry, tired, forget about God when we stub our toes, etc etc.....yes, TS, he that endures to the end will be saved, do you think that involves works????? I used to as well, but let me rephrase it for you--the SAVED will endure to the end!! The reason why I say there is no such thing as an apostate is because no true born again believer will ever become one! Gods Word cannot lie. OK, by definition I'm wrong, what I mean is there is no such thing as a born again believer becoming an unborn again unbeliever

Well I think I answered this pretty well above, but, again, I don't judge, so I don't worry about jumping from conclusions, the Scripture tells me what to think:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

--a born again believer will repent of their sins.....a born again believer isn't going to be happy "living in sin".....if they were truly saved, God won't allow it for long [my opinion].....someone who isn't truly born again will not "continue with us".....God bless TS....sleepy :sleeping_2:

 

I've highlighted above a phrase that we will continue to disagree on.....what you are saying is you and I have a part in our actual salvation, and I argue that our salvation is by grace alone....a work of Christ, not man.....you believe our salvation depends upon living out that faith--that, TS, is a definition of works salvation, which is what I've always believed the RCC teaches, but leads me back to my OP in my discussion with you--you said you have had a true born again experience--my question is, why would you want to go back to a system which teaches works salvation? .....

Amen! Now this is going to sound silly maybe, but why wouldn't you want to go to a Church where this Gospel is preached every week? The life changing, soul saving power of Jesus Christ....TS I'm glad you have been born again, and have had this experience, but my experience with the people [the 9 families in my Church, plus family members] who came out of the RCC is they never heard the Gospel preached

Sorry I had to interject here--I cannot stand the NIV, but thats my opinion! --there are much better study Bibles out there

Your testimony is much like mine when I was saved--I couldn't get enough of Church, the Bible, fellowship, etc.....I would ask questions at Wed night Bible study that I know irritated my preacher [not to irritate him, I just had questions that didn't really have answers, like, why didn't Peter James and John write about the transfiguration--I remember the puzzled look that night and I decided not to do that again![--what goes around comes around as now I'm pastoring and getting those kinds of questions, but hey, I'm ready now! ] You are right, its sad there are so many schisms within Christianity, and this is why I will sort of agree with the RCC [they are big on their rendition of church history]--people need to study the Bible AND Church history--from an actual historic perspective--it changed my life listening to a 13 hr study, which I would be glad to get to you if you would want to hear it.....It goes through everything from the beginning till the Charismatic movement to what we have today [emerging church movement]....The important thing is for a person to continue to study to show themselves approved and to find a TRUE Bible believing Church!

Well you are right, it isn't faith; however, is more often the norm with RCC families [my experience]; again, I KNOW there are saved people in the RCC such as yourself--I also know there are unsaved people in every denomination--the part I have to wrestle with, is which Church should I affiliate with? Again, you embrace sanctification and the process--I wish I had a Church full of people like that! But Biblical sanctification [or esp salvation] is not some process affiliated with a Church or its systems, it is an inner work of the Holy Spirit in the life of a yielded believer.....Good works are an evidence of faith.....I told you earlier I was in a Baptist Church with a Jack Hyles clone pastor who took us out "soul winning"--we asked people questions which any reprobate would agree to, and then asked them to pray and then the preacher would tell them they had been forgiven of all their sins past, present and future and that they could never lose their "salvation" etc etc :tonofbricks:.....We literally went into bars and told people that.....when we left, no person EVER actually came to Church--and I assume we left them the impression they were "saved" and never had to ever lift a finger of concern about their salvation ever again!--this is every bit as dangerous as any system of religion as far as I'm concerned--Jesus said you must be born again....the Scripture says if any man be in Christ he is a NEW creation! [Not because of what I do, but because of what Christ has done]......But TS don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.....there are Bible believing Churches out there.....true born again believers need to find one

Well maybe this is your calling and why you are in the Catholic church--I have been to mass services [when I was in college and went home with a roommate whose family was catholic]--they were/are the sweetest people! They took me in and always treated me like family! I have to be honest, the 7 or 8 times I have been to a service, there is nothing like the Bible taught or preached there.....it seems like a ritual experience where you have to know what is going on [I didn't have a program to go by!] I will end this post by saying, I have no doubt the Mom/Dad of that family are saved people, I can't judge obviously, but I can see/ feel the love of Christ in their eyes, hearts.....they were born into the RCC, never had any reason to question it, because they never studied their Bibles, they've always trusted the family tradition......in a way its easy to understand and hard all at the same time....

 

Straight from the horses Mouth

A. According to Rome, Baptism is essential to receive faith and new birth.

168...."It is through the Church that we receive faith and new life in Christ by baptism. In the Rituale Romanum, the minister of Baptism asks the catechumen: 'What do you ask of God's Church?' And the answer is: 'Faith.' 'What does faith offer you?' Eternal life.'

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother. 'We beleive the Church as the mother of our new birth...." - Catechism of the Catholic Church. Second Edition.

Rome believes that it is the Roman Catholic Church that makes baptism performed outside the physical boundaries of the Church efficaous, and thus she claims to be the mother of all who receive faith and new birth through baptism.


B. Rome interprets faith to mean obedience:

143 "By faith, man completely submits his intellect and his will to God. With his whole being man gives his assent to God the revealer. Sacred Scripture calls this human response to God, the author of revelation, "the obedience of faith."

144 To obey (from the Ltin ob-audire, to 'hear or listen to') in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself. Abraham is the model of such obedience offered us by Sacred Scripture..." (Ibid).

The catechism goes on to quote the various acts of obedience listed in Hebrews 11 concerning Abraham as examples of their definition of faith which is inclusive and inseparable from faithfulness.

Hence, Rome defines faith to be inclusive and thus inseparable from faithfulness.

Thus Ephesians 2:8 and the phrase "by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH" would mean to Rome that in baptism the Church conveys the grace of faith, which is inclusive of obedience or faithfulness to God.

CONCLUSION: Although TS accused me of perverting the Roman Catholic definition of faith when I said that Rome defines faith EQUAL to faithfulness, the reader can easily see that this is precisely how Rome defines faith.

 

Since Rome originates faith and the new birth with baptism, and since Rome defines faith to be inclusive of faithfulness, then justification by faith according to Rome is not "without works" but inclusive of works.

However, the Roman Catholic would respond just as TS did, that salvation is not merited by works APART FROM "acting in faith" which they define as the grace of God or unmerited favor. Hence, Rome beleives that grace works merit salvation and such grace comes through the church and is thus the MOTHER of all true believers.


How does this differ from the Biblical teaching?

1. Repentance and faith always PRECEDE baptism and thus new birth precedes baptism.

2. Justifying faith is the whole person submitting himself to the gospel/good news that Christ's faithfulness rather than his own faithfulness justifies him before God. Hence, the "obedience of faith" in regard to the Gospel is rejection of all personal works by the "ungodly" to be justified but complete and total embracing of the faithfulness of Christ as soley sufficient to satisfy all the righteous demands of God in behalf of the "ungodly" for eternal life. - Rom. 3:24-26

3. The new birth or new inward man is the source of all "good works" rather than justifying faith - Eph. 2:8-10

4. Where there is justification by faith there is regeneration but one is not to be confused with the other. Justification by faith has to do with Christ's faithfulness alone and regeneration in connection with the power of the indwelling Spirit of God has to do with producing faithfulness in the believer - Rom. 6; James 2

 

1234 The meaning and grace of the sacrament of Baptism are clear seen in the rites of its celebration. By following the gestures and words of this celebration with attentive participation, THE FAITHFUL are initiated into the riches this sacrament signifies and actually brings about IN each newly baptized person. - CCC (emphasis mine)

1236 The proclamation of the Word of God enlightens the candidates and the assembly with the revealed truth and elicits the response of faith, WHICH IS INSEPARABLE FROM BAPTISM. Indeed Baptism is 'THE SACRAMENT OF FAITH' in a particular way, since it is the sarcramental ENTRY into the life of faith. - CCC (emphasis mine)

Can you get it much clearer? "the response of faith" is "inseparable from baptism" and that baptism is the "sacrament of faith" because it is the "entry" into the "life of faith."

Now, notice how they associate the "response of faith" with the "proclamation of the Word of God." The proclamation of the word of God merely "enlightens" the candidate which only "elicts the response of faith" but not apart from baptism as they say this "response of faith is "inseparable from baptism."

However, the very reverse is not only taught by the Scritpures but there are examples in scripture that contradict this chronological order by Rome.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Rome says that new birth and faith are received "IN" baptism but Philip demanded faith in Christ BEFORE he would administer baptism.

 

The Biblical meaning of faith - Heb. 11:1

Hebrews 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Much to the confusion of Rome, this is the only passage in the scripture that gives a definition of what faith "IS"? No other passage of scripture has been provided to define what faith "IS"! This is it?

There is a great deal of difference between what faith "IS" versus what a person can do "BY" faith. They are not the same. Rome confuses what faith "IS" versus with what can be done "BY" faith. Hebrews 11 distinguishes between both in a cause and effect relationship.


1. What Faith "IS"?

a. It "IS" the substance of things hoped for. In common language it is inseparable from whatever you base your hopes upon.

Now the term "hope" does not mean "wish" but rather "confident expectation."

For example, what is the basis for confident expectation that you will rise from the Grave? Or that you will go to heaven? Or that Jesus is coming again, Or......?

Bottom line it is God's promise as found in his Word. God's word is the substance for confident expectation.


b. It "IS"....the evidence of things not seen" - Whatever is hoped for is something not seen as we need no "hope" for things seen (Rom. 8:24-25).

Hence, faith "IS" taking God at His word without any visible evidence. Here is the etymological concept of "faith" as simple trust IN someone or something without the need of visible proof.

The first example Paul gives the creation of the present world as an example:

Heb. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

We have nothing but God's Word that says the world came into existence by things we cannot see or examine. Hence, His Word is the only "evidence" of things "not seen."

Therefore, faith in regard to the saints "IS" inseparable from God's Word as the sustance for our confident expectation and the evidence we trust IN without the need to prove it by any visible tangible proofs.

However, this defintion of faith "IS" not merely intellectual assent but confident expectation based upon God's Word. Or as Paul told the Thessalonians that the gospel did not come to them in "word only" but "in power and in the Spirt and IN MUCH ASSURANCE."


2. "By" faith - - What is done "by" faith is not faith but the by-product of faith.

So faith "IS" not merely intellectual assent, but total confidence IN God's Word as the basis of hope.

Second, it is "BY" such complete confidence IN God and His Word (faith) that we manifest this faith through obedience to His Word.

What is done "by" faith is not faith but the product of faith. Everything we do should be a by product of our faith in God and His Word. This is what it means to walk BY faith.

Paul goes on to give many examples of many saints and what they DID "by" faith. What a person does "BY" faith = faithfulness = progressive sanctification.


CONCLUSION: Justying faith is "IN" the Person and work of Christ (Rom. 3:24-26) rather than "BY" what we do or don't do (Rom. 4:5-6). Rome confuses the two and makes them inseparable thus mixing faith with faithfulness or justification and sanctification or confuses what faith "IS" versus what is done "BY" faith.

Obedience to the Gospel means that your complete basis for hope of eternal life is trusting IN the Person and faithfulness of Jesus Christ to be the full and complete "propitiation" (satisfaction) of all God's demands of righteousness in your behalf. Those who make this their complete confidence for the hope of eternal life are also "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works" and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

True repentance is repudiation of your own works as any basis for hope of eternal life ("repentance from dead works") - Heb. 6:1 and complete faith "IN" God's provision of Jesus Christ and His faithfulness for justification before God.

Where there is justification by faith there is also regenerative "good works" which are produced by the Indwelling Spirit of God "by" faith according to the "measure of faith" given to each child of God.

We are justified before God by what our faith is "IN" but we are sanctified by what we do "BY" faith = faithfulness.