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Conversion-Immersion

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by adisciplinedlearner, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    Baptists all over the world are coming to the realization that in New Testament times, initial conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ included repentance, faith, and the confession of Christ in baptism. I call this New Testament practice conversion-immersion, and I am convinced that this is how people became Christians during the New Testament era. I am further convinced that this is how people become Christians today.
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    You can be convinced of something and go straight to hell as well.
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member

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    How about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....how do you weigh in on that subject matter?
     
  4. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    Yes, this is possible.
     
  5. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    There isolated instances among "Baptists" that are embracing this point of view but even among them they do not embrace your soteriology. It is one thing to admit that conversion to the gospel is accompanied by baptism in the New Testament pages but it is quite another thing to interpret baptism as essential to gospel conversion IN ORDER TO BE saved. That is precisely your soteriological interpretation and position.
     
  6. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    As a Landmark Baptist, I taught that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a one-time, unrepeatable, historical, ecclesiastical event related to the Jerusalem church and all the churches in history that would descend from that church. Today, I see this matter in a completely different light.

    I now hold that the repentant believer is born of water and of the Spirit (Jn. 3:5) at the time when he is immersed in water. This does not mean there is anything magical about either baptism or water, but only that God regenerates the repentant believer at the time of his baptism. Romans 6:3-6; Galatians 3:26-29; and Colossians 2:11-13 teach this concept, IMHO.
     
  7. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Active Member

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    Once a person ceases to believe in Baptism as anything other than an ordinance, they cease to be baptists.

    But I do think you have taken the phrase "baptists all over the world" and made it to mean that the small group of people I've talked into this.
     
  8. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    No, Baptists all over the world are rethinking the role of baptism in initial conversion to Christ, and they have written many interesting books on this subject. Many of them seem to think that Baptists have overreacted to the Catholic error of baptismal regeneration and, as a result, have fallen into error themselves. I agree with them on this point.
     
  9. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    When you say "Baptists all over the world" you are giving the impression of a MAJORITY and that is completely false. You are really talking about a very very very few isolated Theologues in comparison to the VAST amount of Baptists. Let's keep things honest.
     
  10. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    I did not say the majority of Baptists, but Baptists all over the world. To be sure, they are in the minority among Baptists, but they are found in many countries.
     
  11. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    Thank you! As you are well aware, there are and have been those considered to be "heretics" among Baptists. The SBC for a long time embraced such professors within their institutions before cleansing the convention of those they regarded as heretical before that cleansing took place (some still remain). There were those like Professor Toy in Southern Seminary in the late 19th century that was cuddled for some time before expelling him. Toy claimed that modern scientific scholarship around the world was behind his views but the vast majority of Baptists were not. Likewise, with your soteriological heresy.
     
  12. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    Yes, the SBC seminaries used to be controlled by neo-orthodoxy. Now, some professors in these seminaries are reexamining the role of baptism in intial conversion to Christ.
     
  13. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Originally Posted by adisciplinedlearner
    >Baptists all over the world are coming to the realization that in New Testament times, initial conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ included repentance, faith, and the confession of Christ in baptism. I call this New Testament practice conversion-immersion, and I am convinced that this is how people became Christians during the New Testament era. I am further convinced that this is how people become Christians today.

    Meaningless because "become Christians" is to general a term for this thread. What this defines is how people become members of a local congregation, NOT how they become regenerate. Further, In their conformation ritual, non-paedo-baptists confirm their baptism by confessing Christ.
     
  14. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    Brother Billwald, How do people become regenerate?
     
  15. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    This passage does not refer to water baptism. There are two possible better interpretations:
    1. That water refers to natural childbirth.
    2. That water refers to the word of God, as in "washing of water with the word." (Eph 5:26)
     
  16. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner New Member

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    Brother Tom, I formerly subscribed to view number one, but my study of John 3:5 in light of historical theology led me to the conclusion that this verse is indeed a reference to Spirit baptism and water baptism.
     
  17. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter New Member

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    That is not his biggest problem with this text. He doesn't even believe there was New Testament salvation until Pentecost. If he tries to justify this Pre-pentecost exhortation for Nicodemus to be regenerated by baptism then he has to deal with the theif on the cross without baptism.
     
  18. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    Well, I believe that baptism is an important ordinance and all believers should obey the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized. One interesting difference between becoming a believer in the first century and becoming a believer today is the climate in which it happens. In the first century, people didn't become "believers" just because (insert whatever reason you want). To profess belief in Christ could have meant certain death. Here in the US? Nah - it's a nice thing to say you believe in Jesus. It's easy to say you are a Christian, go to church, live your happy little life while keeping God just where you want Him. In this climate, I do believe that it is better to wait a bit before baptizing so that the person can hopefully count the cost of their public confession of faith and an elder believer can disciple them for a bit and be sure of their conversion. We all know there are a lot of wet people going to hell because baptism didn't do anything to them and they did not truly belong to God. So to me, waiting a bit to be sure is kind of wise.
     
  19. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    Yes, the VAST amount of Baptists regard baptism as a public statement, no more or no less. Only the few who have not been brainwashed by Baptist tradition, and are willing to believe what the Bible really says, are rethinking this concept. Disciplinedlearner, I commend you for discerning the truth. I'm sure it was difficult to let go of some of your long held but wrong beliefs. You are 100% correct in your view of John 3:5.
     
  20. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Good...we're back on schedule. We can check off the Church of Christ Baptism doctrine.

    Next week, we'll deal with the scandalous evil of the apostate church: Pianos in the sanctuary. :eek: :D :D
     
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