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Featured Corporate Faith?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Jan 9, 2022.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible for the Church (either a local congregation or church universal) to have a corporate faith?

    In Hebrews 11:29-30 we read these words:

    It was by faith that the people of Israel went right through the Red Sea as though they were on dry ground. But when the Egyptians tried to follow, they were all drowned.
    It was
    by faith that the people of Israel marched around Jericho for seven days, and the walls came crashing down.


    Here the speaker says the people of Israel had faith. It is the only time in the chapter where all the people are commended for having a corporate faith.

    Is it possible, as a covenant people, that we, the church, can have a unified faith to accomplish a God given task?
     
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  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting question

    I am looking forward for other responses

    Maybe in something like starting a new church?
     
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Faith in Jesus Christ that results in salvation, is a very personal thing
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sure, faith given to individual believers is a personal thing, but that is not the topic of this thread. Read the OP.

    The passage in Hebrews is talking about the corporate people of the covenant having faith. Grasp covenant relationship with God and see the corporate nature of being in the covenant.
     
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I have read the OP, you are quoting from the OT, where things were much different, and the Nation Israel was a Chosen people by God. However, we do know that all of this Nation were never "saved". God treated them different to the other nations, as they were His people. As a nation they "believe" at times in the Lord, but as history tells us in the OT, the majority of the time they actually lacked "faith" in the Lord. Your question is quite pointless, as the "Church" is of those who "repent and believe" in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. They must be born-again. In any congregation, there will always be believers and non believers and seekers, all together. What are you trying to show?
     
  6. unprofitable

    unprofitable Active Member

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    Christ came preaching the gospel of the KINGDOM. (Mt 4:23). The new covenant is the constitution of the kingdom. You cannot have one without the other.

    As Moses led Israel out of Egypt as a nation/kingdom, so Christ leads his covenant church people as a nation/kingdom. I Peter 2:9 says, Ye are a holy NATION..." In Christ leading his church kingdom out of the midst of bondage, he accomplishes one of the acts whereby he showed Israel that he was THAT prophet prophesied by Moses (Deu 18:18).

    The Lord never saves someone then leaves them to themselves to wander around but covenantly/corporately places them in the body of Christ. Paul, addressing THE CHURCH at Corinth, says in I Corinthians 12:18, "But now hath God set the members EVERY ONE OF THEM in the body, as it has pleased him." This covenant/corporate positioning is accomplished by the ordinance of baptism, which only a scriptural literal local church corporately/coventantly has authority to administer.

    Christ said in John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments". His commandments/words are his covenant. The ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper are given to the church and only a church people/nation has the authority/ability to execute them, therefore they are kept through the corporate faith of the body.

    I Corinthians 12:18 says, "But now are ye a body of Christ and members in particular." This chapter make it clear each member has a particular roll as a member but not apart from the body. I Cor 18:21 says, "And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee..." We do not lose our individual identity as a member but each of us is to strive to be conformed to the image of Christ through the covenant/corporate understanding given to the body of Christ. We therefore have covenant faith or a common shared corporate faith or doctrine/teaching of the kingdom.

    Paul, in writing to the CHURCH at Ephesus, says in Ephesians "Til WE (the church at Ephesus) come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." This shows both corporate faith and knowledge. Paul addressing the CHURCH at Phillipi says in Phil 1:27, "...that ye stand fast in ONE (corporate) spirit, with ONE (corporate) mind striving TOGETHER for the faith of the gospel (of the kingdom). This cannot be done in individuality without the body of Christ corporately.

    The doctrine of individual salvation apart from the body of Christ does great damage to the gospel of the kingdom.
     
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  7. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    His question is not pointless. He asks a valid question that deserves an answer.

    In response to the OP, I would not use the phrase "Corporate Faith" because the phrase can be easily confused with Corporate Election, which I believe is an unbiblical view of Election.

    However, are there times when the church accomplished a certain thing or were blessed by God because they believed (had faith)? I think so. I take you to Revelation 3:

    Revelation 3:7-13 7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says this: 8 ‘I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9 Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

    God put before the Philadelphians and open door. He will cause their enemies to bow down at their feet. He kept them from an hour of testing. This can be attributed to the fact that the majority of the Philadelphian church walked faithfully. Most of the other churches listed in Revelation received a mixture of praise and criticism.

    This is just one example I can find in the N.T.
     
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  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The book of Hebrews is OT???
    It is actually New Covenant teaching here as the speaker in Hebrews ties all this history to Gods salvation always being by grace with faith being the outcome that justifies us.
    We see a covanental people acting as one at the Red Sea and Jericho.
    Can a covanental people (the Church) also act as one with their faith?
    I think so.
     
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    To me the caveat is saving faith is individual

    Christian ministry seems to be corporate.

    at least that is my opinion now, but it could change
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I meant that you are quoting a passage that refersto the OT. Your reasoning does not hold in the NT, which is about personal salvation
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    well, your "answer" is not a vaild one!
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    some cannot see this!
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The author in Hebrews makes it a New Covenant issue. In the New Covenant we are the body of Christ in a covenantal relationship with Christ and with one another. I suggest you are showing a American individualism and forcing such individualism into the Bible.
    We are saved by grace, individually, but we are placed into the corporate body of Christ by virtue of being written into the New Covenant. Thus the church also acts as a corporate entity where faith is expressed as a part of the entire body, not just the individual. We see this in the writers expression of Israels corporate faith in walking through the Red Sea and going around the city of Jericho. I will add that we also see the corporate failure of faith when Israel does not trust the report of Caleb and Joshua regarding going into the land of Canaan and subduing it. Such corporate lack of faith results in 40 years of wandering.

    I believe this passage in Hebrews points to local churches having a unified faith in action.
     
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  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    When we sing and worship the Lord on Sunday, is that showing "corprate faith?"
     
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  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Dude, firstly I am not American, but from England. Secondly, the title of your OP is Corporate Faith, which is not anywhere taught in the OT. Neither could this be possible in the OT, as salvation is always a personal thing
     
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Corporate worship and hearing of the scriptures
     
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  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Think he could be referring to Corporate worship and hearing the scriptures!
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    read the OP title
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily, unless the worship turns to action. Faith does good works. Many may come in to the King's consulate, worship and receive instruction, but not faithfully act upon those instructions.
    So, an act of worship is not guarantee of an act of faith.
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your individualism is American. I guess Brits can be rugged individualists as well.
    Your ignorance of covenantal relationship is very obvious.
    We see this corporate, covenantal people, expressing faith in the verses shown in Hebrews 11. Feel free to ignore these verses if you cannot reconcile them with your worldview.
     
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